Talk:Cave Story

I really didn't knew that! Well, in that case, I don't think the "secret" is unused content, or anything like it. Should we keep the "Main Artery's secret" section then? It's mostly underlooked, as basically no one would think to open the map on that level. In my opinion, it's better to have too much info than too little. Besides, someone else might re-add this info in the future, thinking it's unused, without knowing that it was added to the article once and removed. So I suggest we keep it. {EspyoT} 10:34, 3 April 2011 (EDT)

I'm not particularly fond of calling secrets 'unused content' myself, especially if they were intentionally designed to only be viewed a certain way. Maybe make a special section entirely for things like the artery map, the life capsule item, chako's lipstick, etc? JTE 15:38, 7 April 2011 (EDT)


 * I don't want to call it unused content either, and a big part of me wants it deleted. Another part of me wants it to stay... I don't think joining it with the life capsule item and Chako's lipstick would work. One is a genuinely unused inventory item. Other is just a not-quite-hidden secret. The artery's map is also a secret, but more hidden. {EspyoT} 17:45, 7 April 2011 (EDT)


 * Well if we're keeping it, it has to go SOMEWHERE... And the life capsule is still used, it's just only visible in the dialog box when you pick one up. Same as how the main artery's secret message is only visible when you use the map. And Chako's lipstick has no use. You know what I mean? The item text for the life capsule is the only part that's really unused, just like the actual image of the artery tiles are unused. (The event script probably only exists at all because Pixel seems paranoid about things NOT existing... Hence all the crazy 0 tileset, 0 npc sheet, empty event scripts for every map object which is referenced in ANOTHER event, he even put in a completely silent two second loop track JUST for when music slot 0 is played to turn music off; Crazy!) JTE 18:12, 7 April 2011 (EDT)


 * I see. Well. I suppose we could add them together then. {EspyoT} 18:49, 7 April 2011 (EDT)
 * I think other pages have used but widely unknown things on them. I say keep it. --Fry's Dead Dog (I will wait for you) 22:26, 7 April 2011 (EDT)

More of Igor surviving?
In, the script <KEY<MSG<FAC0013Who are you...?<NOD I've never seen you around before.<NOD<END can be found. I doubt Jenka says this. It must be Igor, specially considering his face for these lines was 13, and that's the face that appears in this script. Thoughts? {EspyoT} 16:02, 11 April 2011 (EDT)

This script happens when you talk to Jenka for the first time and don't have a puppy. It's a default fallback after a bunch of flag jumps you conveniently ignored. Face 13 is Jenka's face and this is Jenka's map to begin with, so yes, it is not Igor. They can't exist at the same time. JTE 11:26, 25 April 2011 (EDT)


 * You're very probably right. {EspyoT} 19:50, 25 April 2011 (EDT)

<KEY<MSGFive!<NOD<END Oh, this is the real unused script there. It's for when you talk to the fifth puppy. Which never shows up, because when you bring the fifth puppy back, you're sent to  instead. JTE 11:36, 25 April 2011 (EDT)
 * 1) 0314


 * Yes, I did notice that once you enter the door with the fifth puppy in your head, the game sends you to  from there on. That line really is unused and should be added to the article. {EspyoT} 19:50, 25 April 2011 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure one of the demo finishers (specifically, the "might make this the last area" one) is attached to a NPC stuffed in a wall on the Outer Wall. -- Xkeeper (talk) 12:36, 25 April 2011 (EDT)
 * Yep. I'll add it to the article. {EspyoT} 19:50, 25 April 2011 (EDT)

HDification of unused graphics
Woop! Lilfut, please dump and upload them! I want to see an HD flying puppy!{EspyoT} 16:18, 27 September 2011 (EDT)

Frothing-Mouthed Descriptions
How about you actually explain instead of being vague and making the page look like it was scrawled in a MY SELLOUT INDIE GAMES ARGH flipout worthy of GameFAQs? If you have something to say, actually say it instead of being all "I KNOW SOMETHING YOU DON'T KNOW LOEL". Shit or get off the bowl! - TheKins 21:53, 8 November 2011 (EST)
 * we were actually working on an article in the private forum for this game for a while, but suffice to say that nicalis did a really shitty job of hiding the fact that they stole the mods in the wiiware port. --Xk-sig.png Xkeeper (talk) 22:00, 8 November 2011 (EST)

If it's not worth doing in public, it's not worth doing full-stop. -TheKins 22:14, 8 November 2011 (EST)
 * TCRF is not overly-formal. If a superbly shitty job was done (and as far as everything I can see goes, this is a superbly shitty job) there's no problem with Xkeeper or anyone else calling that out. We are not bound to encyclopedic standards; we need to make articles accurate, readable, and if possible interesting. While minimal subjectivity is generally advised, there is not a hard-and-fast rule. The Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 (Xbox 360) article is unashamedly negative; this is because its subject is nearly universally recognized as a bad game. So, with a port as lazy as this appears (note: haven't purchased it due to my being cheap and its looking terrible) I don't see why there's a problem with negativity. Even if there was hard proof that every mod was completely re-implemented from the ground up, with no knowledge of the community work- this still has ugly filtered/resized graphics and half-baked special features, for which a premium is being charged over the free PC version.


 * If the people doing the work of the research and the article want to be negative about something that warrants it- why is that a problem? --Afti 02:50, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * The problem I have with this sort of trash talking is that it's entirely subjective; what may be utter crap to one may not be to another, and adds nothing to the article whatsoever except needless negativity. Sure, we're not "formal" like Wikipedia, but I've never liked seeing sites that *should* be neutral getting into stuff like this. We're here to document unused stuff, not review games and pass along our own personal critiques. I mean, if I wanted to, I could make some snark about how FFT PSP changed all the names, removed some fun aspects (like stealing from bosses), and worked in some half-assed forced multiplayer in order to access some new content. But it adds zilch to the article, and not everyone feels the same as I do about the changes. And I agree with TheKins here, in that it *does* sound like some baw baw garbage you'd be more likely to find on GameFAQs. -YK [[Image:YK-sig.png|link=User_talk:YK]] 02:56, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * "We're not here to pass along our personal critiques"? That's been kind of a staple even early on. If people want to read gushing shit about games there's plenty of gaming "review" sites out there to stuff them full of candy. We report facts. Usually. And in this case, Nicalis was a lazy piece of shit. --Xk-sig.png Xkeeper (talk) 03:32, 9 November 2011 (EST)

"If it's not worth doing in public..." Not entirely true, either. See the Ruby page -- that was hidden for a long time because it was stuff that we didn't/couldn't let out until a certain time. The only difference here is that the research wasn't fully complete and there were some loose ends to tie up before we did full-on finger pointing. -- Xkeeper (talk) 03:32, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * First off: I am not against negative, point-of-view stuff. I am against flailing childish fits. Some of the Cave Story stuff merrily crosses over from "snarky and annoyed" to "embarassing to all involved".

Secondly: Somehow, I don't think people would have particularly minded if you waited on the Ruby stuff until the ROM came out publicly (to say nothing of the secret scheming to edit it, which effectively demotes it from a genuine prototype to a crappy ROM hack, but that's for another discussion...). This is not a race. There is no such thing as SUPER SCENE CREDZ for getting in first. We can take our time. And if this mod stuff is as blatant as you make it sound, then surely you would have gotten more help, eyes and attention on it by researching it in the public eye instead of in an echo chamber?

But by all means, keep trying to justify flagrant elitism, merrily going against the entire Wiki idea of "everyone can contribute", and generally being wrong as much as you want if it makes you feel better about it. :) -TheKins 08:27, 9 November 2011 (EST)


 * Flagrant elitism? I appreciate your comment, but you have no idea what you are talking about and you should really stop until you learn. The Ruby prototype was withheld because I was told that the fact it was German would provide a direct link to the employee who released it, possibly leading to termination. The reason we were considering editing the screenshots was to please drx and some others, so that we could still release the prototype details without getting anybody in trouble (think of it like redacting information to protect people). The prototype being released out of nowhere was something none of us were expecting.
 * As for Cave Story, there is a lot of research that was going on involving contacting people and verifying the accusations that were going to be made. Much like Clue, if you make an accusation before you're sure of the details and you're wrong, you lose. Especially when we're dealing with a game that is still being milked profited on by the company we're accusing.
 * I appreciate your thought about the whole "SUPER SCENE CREDZ" though, it really shows just how far you have your head shoved up your ass. --Xk-sig.png Xkeeper (talk) 20:15, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * For the record- I had been sitting on the same Ruby prototype. I had exactly the same information to go with it- its language alone could possibly implicate the person who released it. Don't throw around accusations of hoarding for scene cred if you don't have any idea what you're talking about- the Ruby prototype was not seeing release at that time for a very good reason. I can't speak for anyone else; I had planned to release anonymously it in around a decade because I didn't feel that anyone whose job would be at risk would still hold that job by then. But there's a good reason for that item's having not seen public release, and I take personal offense to your suggestion that I and others who'd come to possess it were hoarding because we can. I greatly value free distribution of prototypes, but I'm not going to put someone out of work to release one. --Afti 20:59, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * If a proto is unable to be released or posted about due to some reason or another, than really, why post about it? It should be looked at the same way as a prototype still lost in a developer's vaults - with some fascination, then ignored. Without a public release/leak of some kind, there's no way for anyone outside of the Cool Kids Club to take part in research and as a result you might as well just photoshop up something not unlike this for all the relevance it will have. If it does come out? Fine, work on documenting it then. No rush. If you need to contact people to verify stories? Email them and document findings in a forum thread. It's not like there's anything to hide.
 * As much as this whole argument has flown way off the original topic, I still don't see any need for a separate private wiki/forum, short of providing a fuzzy AssemblerGames-y feeling to a select group. -TheKins 22:48, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * What would you expect us to do? Sit there next to a newly leaked, undocumented secret prototype of a game and pretend we have no interest in it? What would you do if someone handed you a spiffy prototype and told you to keep quiet about it for a while? Could you honestly say you wouldn't even play with it? Keeping it quiet has nothing to do with elitism or trying to limit who has access to it. It really is as Xk said: we're respecting people's wishes to protect them, as well as making sure our claims are solid when we finally make them. --Peardian 23:08, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * I hate to break it to you, Pear, but you're talking to the result of stacking (crafting a square made of (clay baked in a furance)) in a straight line several layers tall. --Xk-sig.png Xkeeper (talk) 01:07, 10 November 2011 (EST)
 * "I still don't see any need for a separate private wiki/forum, short of providing a fuzzy AssemblerGames-y feeling to a select group."
 * Haha, wow. You have no idea how far off-base you are with that comment. In fact, I'm a bit insulted by it. Way to go. --BMF54123 01:21, 10 November 2011 (EST)
 * Pearidan: This wouldn't happen, because the sort of people who would trust me with prototypes in the first place know that I don't keep quiet about such things. I don't have the abilities to properly research such things, so I'd pass it around like herpes in an attempt to find someone who did. I might even set up a website where people can compare notes! Some kind of... I dunno... one of those Wikipedia things?
 * Xkeeper: If you're going to throw insults around in place of arguments, just do it instead of hiding it behind faux-intelligence.
 * Either way, I don't think anybody here is going to change anybody's opinion. Do whatever works for you, but know that you're shutting a lot of potential help out. -TheKins 01:33, 10 November 2011 (EST)
 * The way you're acting makes me believe that I could say the sky is blue and you'd feel insulted, and rather than acknowledge that you were wrong you're throwing taking your ball and going home. Way to go. You're a winner. --Xk-sig.png Xkeeper (talk) 02:00, 10 November 2011 (EST)
 * I learned from the best. -TheKins 02:13, 10 November 2011 (EST)

My my... what an uneasy environment. The way I see it, the opening paragraph of an article is basically unimportant. I mean, almost nobody reads about unused content about a game they never saw. So nobody needs to have a short paragraph explaining the game. In my eyes, that paragraph is just to open the article, so the infobox and TOC aren't left there alone. As such, it has humorous (or at least tentative) descriptions, or just some of the game's most distinguishing features. As for the objectivity/subjectivity, it's best if we go objective. Fanboism out of place is just rude. However, in our case, there is no denying it. Like Afti pointed out, the fact that Sonic 06 was bad is too unanimous. If one thinks that game was good, they can be called crazy. The fact that the Wii remakes of Cave Story were half-assed is also pretty unanimous. You can nearly smell the amount of effort put into it (read: none). The description could be a bit shorter and calmer, but I see no reason to hide the mention that the Wii versions are cheaply made. {EspyoT} 14:02, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * My problem is still that something being "bad" is entirely subjective. I was on the "I actually like this game" side of a nearly unanimously hated game back in the day, that being SaGa Frontier. It was *the* thing to take cheap shots at that game back in the late 90s/early 2000s, and I did not appreciate being called "crazy" or "stupid" for actually daring to see the beauty in a game many people outright declared "one of the worst games ever made". I've never played Cave Story or Sonic 360, but having been a fan of an internet-proclaimed "worst game ever", I suppose this sort of attack just sorta hits close to home for me, is all. -YK [[Image:YK-sig.png|link=User_talk:YK]] 14:30, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * I don't think anyone's saying we should insult the people who like the games in question, but we should recognize poor craftsmanship. Honestly, I'd say the tone should be down to the person doing the work of the article- don't interfere in things purely to make them more neutral unless the tone actually inhibits the communication of unused information. The Metroid Prime 2: Echoes article is very positive about that game; that's because I made it and I'm a big fan. If someone else had put the work into that article, it could have an intro amounting to "You know what's better than fighting a ridiculous, impossible bullshit boss? Fighting a ridiculous, impossible bullshit boss while the air is eating your health. And your half-decent weapons aren't working because of a badly-implemented amno system. And you can't see a thing because the entire arena is the same color of dingy purple. Welcome to Metroid Prime 2: Echoes." This is on the far end of negative opinions, but it does exist; if it was the opinion held by the person writing that article, I wouldn't have a problem with a negative tone, provided the information was still handled well. In general- I'm not big on the idea of second-guessing the person doing the majority of the work for something this trivial. --Afti 16:49, 9 November 2011 (EST)
 * That's the idea. There should be nothing against calling out shoddy developers/publishers for shoddy work. Insulting the people who like said thing is another matter entirely, and as far as I can tell has not occurred. (Also, I like how some of the people getting upset over calling things the way we see them have also enjoyed doing so to other games themselves.) --Xk-sig.png Xkeeper (talk) 20:20, 9 November 2011 (EST)

So... let me get this straight. We're brawling over a fucking opening paragraph. ...Well, I'm gonna take some action. {EspyoT} 09:01, 10 November 2011 (EST)

3DS?
I'm not sure if it's even possible to look at unused 3DS content yet, but if so, we need some analysis of the unused stuff. Stuff like if the Beast Fang sprite got revamped, if the unused enemies got models or remained as sprites (like the tiny Polish and the Littles, off the top of my head), or if the Main Artery secret was fully modeled or... I honestly don't know what the alternative would be. -Lilfut
 * As far as I can see, the 3DS version still has the same engine, but the changes to sprites and whatnot are too great to compare them with the PC and Wii versions. As such, when we are eventually able to find unused 3DS stuff, we probably won't talk about it on this article, like with the PC and Wii differences. But hey, if the unused stuff is actually of interest, and suitable to have a page similar to the aforementioned PC v Wii page, all the better! I'm really eager to see what kinda unused stuff there is... The game's still young; there's even talk about a trollface, but nobody uploads anything... If only someone could share some info on the game, like that so called trollface, and the Main Artery's secret... {EspyoT} 16:46, 29 November 2011 (EST)
 * Well, I have the 3DS version. I can't take screencaps, but I'll see if I can get a photo of the trollface until someone else comes along, and in my next playthrough I'll try to access the Main Artery's secret. -Lilfut
 * Oh, great! Thanks! I don't even care if it's a blurry screenshot. {EspyoT} 18:06, 1 December 2011 (EST)
 * I can't seem to make out the supposed "trollface" on the teleporter, but there seems to be something on the block to the right. It might not be a trollface, Me Gusta or Forever Alone maybe? -Lilfut
 * I think you guys are just seeing things. --BMF54123 20:12, 1 December 2011 (EST)
 * Only if it's a lowres texture or something. Maybe the guys at GameFAQs were... trolling? Thanks for the screenshot, still. {EspyoT} 04:37, 2 December 2011 (EST)

I'd like to add something, albeit a year later, after Cave Story+ for Steam was released as well as the 3DS Downloadable version. Without even bothering about unused content for any of this, Cave Story+ is apparently a gigantic combination of the original, the US WiiWare version(s), and the PAL WiiWare version, and the 3DS version is essentially a complete port of the Steam version. Perhaps you can decode the Steam version, and the graphics differences, text, etc. can be SEEN when playing the 3DS Downloadable version, albeit not actually examined through decoding. Should we discuss these differences, or not get into it because it's too confusing? KommanderAwesome 15:43, 18 November 2012 (EST)
 * I just didn't get the "decode the Steam version, and the graphics differences can be SEEN when playing the 3DS downloadable version". But from what I understood, Cave Story+ has everything bundled inside. Well, I don't think it's worth talking about the differences between each thing there when we have this article... Maybe a note somewhere. Unless I understood wrong. {EspyoT} 07:39, 19 November 2012 (EST)

Nicalis mods not stolen
NPOV aside, there has been a statement by seriousface that he sent his boss rush mod to nicalis and he is fine with their using it. Link. As well, Sanctuary and Nemesis Challenges were created by Shmitz for their use. Link. I had completely forgotten about that xkeepr guy (I just found this website a few days ago and had been browsing out of boredom) but it seems there are still scraps of his fiery vendetta floating around that should probably be cleaned up. --Noxid 09:28, 11 July 2012 (EDT)
 * Well, NPOV isn't used that strongly here. But yeah, that's some good info. Not quite sure we should remove some of the small insults on Nicalis' port though. Not only did we have a sad fight over it (read above), but also it's a bit unanimous: The Wii port was kinda poor and hastily done. This game has a lot of juicy info on unused things; I'm more worried on having those look good rather than opinions on the port. {EspyoT} 13:32, 11 July 2012 (EDT)

"Unused music"?
The categories say that Cave Story has unused music. First of all, this isn't mentioned in the article, but if you're referring to the beta songs, they aren't actually in the game. They were released separately by Pixel. --Lilfut 15:38, 28 July 2012 (EDT)
 * Huh, that's silly. The only 3 songs that could be considered unused by some are Hero's End, that's only heard on the bad ending, Toroko's Theme, that's heard on the title screen if your time in Hell is 5 minutes or less, and White, if your time in Hell is 4- minutes. Other than that, there's Wind Fortress, which isn't in the final game. So yeah, no song goes unused. I'll remove the categorization. {EspyoT} 08:29, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
 * On a side note (and I know there technically isn't a page for it at this time), the Cave Story 3D apparently has an unused Wind Fortress remix that's been floating around on places like YouTube. The same remix would later appear in the Cave Story+ update that included a third "Remastered" OST option. LinkTheLefty 12:27, 29 July 2012 (EDT)

Revision Differences?
There must be some differences between the 1.0.0.6 version Pixel keeps on his website, and the other freeware versions he's made that are floating around... The most I've got is that a 1.0.0.7 release was made so the game wouldn't crash for a Chinese fan-translation, but there's also at least a 1.0.0.5, and the main page has a screenshot of 1.0.0.4 on the title screen. Anyone know what changes were made in these versions, and if there are any earlier released versions? It's hard to find a changelog on this since the older versions were purged whenever an update came out. LinkTheLefty (talk) 20:25, 2 December 2013 (EST)
 * Good point. It would be kinda hard to find the differences, and actually, I'm not entirely sure we should cover revisional differences for PC games. There are a lot of revisions for some games, something that doesn't happen on console games. Still, if anybody can find any interesting change, it should be noted. {EspyoT} 12:47, 3 December 2013 (EST)

Cave Story+
There's some unused text for stuff like the challenges, which have unused taglines (e.g., Wind Fortress has "Take to the skies"). There's also some duplicate sprites in things like Curly Story. Should these be documented? --Dr. Yay (talk) 17:45, 28 March 2014 (EDT)