Talk:Pokémon Red and Blue

Surfing for MISSINGNO.

I recall surf does not function as a method to find MISSINGNO. or any other glitch Pokemon in original Japanese Red and Green. Can someone verify this? If I'm correct all of their Cinnabar and Seafoam coastal tiles should have zero wild encounter rate. Theclaw 03:51, 2 July 2012 (EDT)

Pretty much seems like it (at least for Japanese Red). I surfed along the Cinnabar coastal tiles for quite a while and got no random encounters in any of them... Except on the one in the very lower-right corner of the island, but that one only gave me Tentacools, so it may already be getting data from the route next to it. --Cronus 20:37, 13 February 2013 (EST)

Well tile properties changed would itself be a regional difference. Glitch or no glitch. We'd have to look at the programming of Japanese versions to see whether it was possible to begin with for coastal tiles to have wild Pokemon. Theclaw 16:18, 5 April 2013 (EDT)

Ninten & Sony names

These simple names indicate the possibility that the Nintendo/Sony rivalry maybe have been stronger in the pre-PlayStation years than previously thought. Along with the enabling of these names come specific modes which allow for a faster advance into game play by eliminating portions to almost all of the opening intro. These two discoveries are quite possibly disabled, leftover development features.

First, I haven't seen any "faster advance" in the intro (only the menus for name entry are removed, which is required for the NINTEN/SONY names to be seen in the first place), and second, Pokemon Red was released in in the US in 1998, about 3 years after the PlayStation.

So yeah, uh, nixed. --Xkeeper 19:30, 21 February 2010 (EST)

Sounds like someone was just confused. "Enabling" these names is done by bypassing the name entry screens. Of course that does slightly reduce the time taken to get through the intro, but it's just a patch, not some leftover feature meant to be "turned on". ⬡ 06:47, 14 June 2012 (EDT)

Default names?

So does anyone know what the default names are for the Japanese releases? And if it varies between revision? --User:Evilhamwizard

Sign your name next time... They're (obviously) different in the Japanese release, but I think they default to developer's names. Not sure exactly. -- Xkeeper (talk) 03:46, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

Here is the answer... Stag019 16:21, 5 January 2011 (EST)

Oak post-victory speech

Does the Oak battle have any text after you kick his ass? -- Xkeeper (talk) 03:46, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

That depends on the roster value. As far as I know though, all of his 'speeches' are either all invalid or undefined. --Torchickens 13:04, 5 July 2010 (EDT)

Correction; yes he can say "Oh no! My POKéMON!" so he will say whatever was registered for the last trainer. --Torchickens 10:40, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

Chief

I heard there's an unused trainer class called "Chief". Someone should really look into this. -- Prince Kassad 12:49, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

Yes, thats well known across 'glitch fanatics'; because a 'Chief' can be encountered by chance if you perform the Old Man Trick whilst having a '-' letter as the 3rd, 5th, 7th, (9th, 11th... ) letter in your name. Therefore the trainer class Chief has a hexadecimal identifier of E3 (227).

About the trainer class itself; no valid rosters have been found for it, nor have any victory speeches when you defeat one. A 'chief' shares its sprite with the 'scientist' trainer class. --Torchickens 08:34, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

Option choice address(es)?

Does anybody happen to know which RAM address(es) determine what options i.e. (YES/NO), (NO/YES), (HEAL/CANCEL), etc. are being managed with in a text box? I haven't had much luck with searching around the game code but the options, according to a text dump appear in this order: --Torchickens 13:59, 9 November 2010 (EST)

NO
YES

YES
NO

NORTH
WEST

SOUTH
EAST

NORTH
EAST

TRADE
CANCEL

HEAL
CANCEL

Red/Green map differences

I could have sworn that Red/Green have map differences in caves compared to American R/B/Y. --Oaa 14:21, 14 November 2010 (EST)

I know that R/G has a completely different Unknown Dungeon layout compared to the American R/B/Y. A rip comparing the two would be useful. Teflon 14:31, 14 November 2010 (EST)

That's probably why there's a ton of unused maps. IIRC Victory Road was quite a bit harder.--Oaa 14:35, 14 November 2010 (EST)

I dumped all of them, feel free to incorporate them into the article. Also, the deleted maps have nothing to do with this at all. I checked Victory Road, but the layout is the same.--Tauwasser 21:24, 14 November 2010 (EST)

????? item

Does the ????? item use the same name in the Japanese version? --Smallhacker 16:41, 20 January 2011 (EST)

MISSINGNO.

I think this needs elaborated on a little bit. In the game, different structures are stored in different orders: Most data is stored in internal id order (which most people assume is the order they were created in), while a few things are stored in Pokedex number order. In order to determine the Pokedex number when given an id number, there is a lookup table. Every single MISSINGNO. (and coincidentally 'M) has this number set to zero.

An example of something stored in id order is names. Each MISSINGNO. has it's own name, which is uniquely placed in the rom, but otherwise the exact same string repeated 39 times. Another example is Pokedex data. MISSINGNO. points to data that defines it as a "??? Pokemon", however, the weight and height is almost certainly "garbage data forced into a Pokemon template". The final important example is that each MISSINGNO. has unique data for it's cry. While most just use type zero cry of zero pitch and zero length (fairly similar to Nidoran M's cry), there are indeed a few unique ones (see here). This is the biggest hint that these were once real Pokemon. It may also be worth noting that each individual MISSINGNO. has a pointer to different data telling it not to evolve or learn any new moves at new levels (simply two 0x00 bytes).

When something is stored in Pokedex order, things get slightly more complicated. When most things look for data in data tables, Bulbasaur (number one) is stored first. Since adding the start address to the number (multiplied by the length of the data) wouldn't work, one is subtracted from the number first. When one is subtracted from zero for MISSINGNO., it underflows to 0xFF. That means that it's base stats reads from "garbage data forced into a Pokemon template". More info on that is here.

Obviously, this big long explaination doesn't need to be given, but some of this information (specifically the cries) may be important. Also, I just don't like the way the sentence "not garbage data forced into a Pokémon template" sounds. -- Stag019 21:22, 29 January 2011 (EST)

Differences in assumable prototype versions

"The (TRAINER TYPE) wants to fight!"

There has been a prototype screenshot of the trainer fight with Brock in the official manual, pp. 7 and 25. It shows that the prototype dialogue would say "The TRAINERNAME[NL]wants to fight!" instead of "TRAINERNAME wants[NL]to fight!". Additionally, in earlier pre-release screenshots promoting the games there is a screenshot of the player encountering Misty; "The MISTY wants to fight."

Prototype	Final
File:PKMN RB U Brock Beta.jpg

"(POKéMON) CUT down a bush!"

In a screenshot on p. 31 of the official player's guide for Pokémon Red and Blue, "(POKéMON) CUT[NL]down a bush!" is used instead of the usual message "(POKéMON) hacked[NL]away with CUT!" when using Cut on a bush. This was changed because Cut can also be used to chop down tall grass, and the same text string is used for both purposes.

Prototype	Final
File:PKMN RB U Cut Beta.png

Lavender Town Music Edit -- Myth?

I've listened to the supposedly different version of Lavender's theme from 1.0, but it doesn't sound any different from the regular version. Just to check, I made a comparison MP3 -- left channel is the OGG from the wiki page, right channel is recorded from my Blue version. As far as I can tell, the themes are 100% identical. Any weird stuff you hear comes from speeding up Blue's theme because the Green one was something like .161% slower, probably from poor recording or transcoding. Unless I'm missing something, I'm pretty sure this is just more ridiculous rumormongering over Lavender's music. Supper 13:46, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

Probably, then. I heard a difference, but that's probably just confirmation bias (expected a difference, so perceived the music differently) at work there. Shall I remove it? --Afti 14:17, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

You might as well, since they're pretty clearly identical. Supper 14:33, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

Unused Song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKMW7E8tbGU This may be of interest... --Oaa 14:17, 16 January 2012 (EST)

Oh wait nevermind it's already been added. --Oaa 14:57, 16 January 2012 (EST)

Cross post the post I made at Skeetendo:

I believe I found the song in Yoshi for the Gameboy as well (Yoshi (U) [!].gb to be more precise). I don't know for sure, but the data seems similar with some differences. I don't know if it's actual sound data or not, can someone with more knowledge look at this?

I believe there are 3 channels, located at:

Ch1 - 0x7960

Ch2 - 0x7A25

Ch3 - 0x7AF0

I can't seem to find any data like this in Nontan to Issho, though. Perhaps they used a different driver for that game.

Also, are you sure that channel 3 is located at 0xAA6F? I think it's located at 0xAA76...Evilhamwizard 15:21, 22 January 2012 (EST)

As for the first question, it is music data, but it isn't the unused Pokémon song. I'm not very familiar with the game, so I'm not sure if it is even unused. I can tell from the pointers (at 0x7CC4-0x7D8C in the same ROM you used) that the third channel pointer you listed is actually the first pointer for a different track, though.

In regards to that last question, I don't think a third channel exists for the song at all. 0xAA76 is the starting location of Viridian/Pewter/Saffron City's first channel. --Mattrizzle 16:38, 22 January 2012 (EST)

I downloaded all the Music from Red/Blue and I may also have the Real unused track. The notes are not actually that high either. SamuelEarl666

Fixing the Old Age

I'm not sure what you mean by old age but some stuff in this deserves to go in a Sub-page instead of the one mile long page at the moment. From: SamuelEarl666

Unobtainable item

The Pokemon Red disassembly project has recently been working on hidden objects. We've determined the reason the ItemFinder goes off in this area is because there is indeed a hidden item. However, it's located off the boundaries of the map and is therefore quite literally unobtainable. This item is a Nugget, and is located at the coordinates 10, 1. This has me come to the conclusion that the map was not originally the Safari Zone entrance, and was changed during development without the hidden item removed (this data is far separated from map data).

In addition, there's also a hidden Max Elixer in the unused map 0x6F at the coordinates 14, 11. Take out of that what you want. -- Stag019 03:39, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

I'm putting this here because the same code (hidden objects) helped me make this discovery. ubitux had a script that would show any hidden objects (not just items) located out-of-bounds. Three more were found in addition to the Nugget in the Safari Zone entrance. See also this. -- Stag019 03:40, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

...Huh.

So, I periodically check on Bulbapedia's "beta" articles to see if anything interesting and verifiable shows up there. Usually this is disappointing, but today I actually found something of note.

I noticed this a few minutes ago. This is new to me, and it's interesting- very early map of Kanto. Part of the Capsule Monsters pitch, and very much notable. I don't think it'd be wise to place in the main article, but it's information which may come in handy. At any rate, it proves that for all Red and Blue's development issues, the basic layout of Kanto has been constant.

It also suggests the origin of the extra, empty "town" map; all of the individually-labeled boxes (both the numbered ones and the one labeled T, which became Saffron City) hold the locations of towns in the final game. The box labeled C, the one disconnected from everything, doesn't correspond to any final towns, however. So, while I don't think it's ironclad to the point where it's worth putting in the article, I think that's by far the most plausible origin of the empty "town" map. Doesn't say much on what it was for or how you'd access it with no connecting routes, though! --Afti 02:39, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Very interesting! I wonder if it corresponds at all to a real-world Japanese town, presuming the :Kanto locations are based on cities in the real Kanto area of Japan. Saffron City seems to correspond to Tokyo, which is about right. So what would a town just below :Tokyo have been similar to? Yokohama? Kawasaki?

--GlitterBerri 06:15, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

If we're speculation-ing it up:

T = Tokyo

C = ???

--Afti 14:39, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

While this is interesting (and speculated upon here), remember that the article is for solid facts of data left in the ROM, or pre-release pictures that clearly demonstrate that and while you might think to link this up with the unused city, I feel it's more speculation than solid evidence. Also keep in mind that Kanto is only loosely based off the region of Japan, for example, the safari zone is based the Fuji-Hakone-Izu National Park, which doesn't fit into the Pokemon world in the same place as it does in Japan. Also, I like the descriptive title (>_>). And to GlitterBerri, Both Saffron and Celedon correspond to Tokyo. Yokohama corresponds to Vermillion. Read more about it on Bulbapedia -- Stag019 21:07, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Don't worry; I'm well aware that this doesn't belong in the article! But it's still interesting to discuss, and having this here on the talk page would be useful if anything more conclusive comes out of the data. --Afti 04:19, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Red/Green & Blue Sprite Comparison

Should we include a comparison between the Red/Green sprites and the Blue/International sprites? I think it counts a regional difference, at the least. --From: divingkataetheweirdo 12:28, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

Given that we also have the Red/Green glitches in here, it would only make sense. But boy, that would be a lot of sprites to describe. -- Sheeza 13:13, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

And also, many of these sprites are covered on other well-known sites, so it seems like a lot of effort for relatively little gain. >_> --Nicole 13:40, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

I actually would feel it'd contribute somewhat to the page, even as a subpage. It's kinda hard to call it 'complete' without completely covering the subject.--Kung Fu Man 21:58, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

I actually feel that despite perhaps being a "regional" difference, it doesn't really belong in this wiki (nor do the other Japanese Blue differences). But no one has really come to a consensus as what does or doesn't qualify for inclusion in this page (seeing as how it really covers 15 games, or at least 7 unique games) I haven't really begun to try adding new things or seperating out regional/versionn differences into its own page yet. -- Stag019 23:07, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

In my experience, plenty of sites have the changed sprites, but just sort of murmur about there being "other changes" between red/green and blue. We should at least keep the other version differences, and if someone wants to take the time to upload and catalog the sprites (it should definitely get a subpage) then so much the better. --Fry's Dead Dog _{(I will wait for you)} 23:37, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

Article overhaul

I did an overhaul to the article. While it might still not be perfect, I reorganized it a lot and added some information that was missing. I believe it is much better now. Please leave feedback. :) SatoMew 14:58, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Please don't make section names lowercase; we've actually been moving away from that elsewhere on the wiki.

Also, please don't expect people reading an article to know what a "well-known" glitch is (ex: "The well-known old man glitch was partially fixed in the Spanish Rojo y Azul"). All glitches should be explained in a clear and concise manner. I'm aware that we have other articles with this problem elsewhere on the wiki, but we're doing our best to fix them whenever we can. --BMF54123 16:53, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Okay, I see where the "old man" glitch was documented. That section could still be reworded to either briefly describe the glitch again, or link to the section of the article that contains it. --BMF54123 16:57, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Thanks for the feedback. I've edited the article based on part of it. However, I didn't add back a brief description of the Old Man glitch (at least yet) but decided to add that to the to-do template in the glitch's sub-section in the article. I've also removed the formatting from the bob as you already told me in Yellow's article revision history summary. SatoMew 17:40, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Minor thing

Entries 0x09 through 0x13 (between Ghost at 0x08 and Fire at 0x14) on the type chart are blank, suggesting a decent chunk of removed types. Is this notable? --Afti 17:58, 16 August 2012 (EDT)

No, because this was programmed in for a reason. As shown here, all of those types point to the same string as normal. While this doesn't prove whether or not they were once used or not, the fact that type 6 (Bird) remains, but no others do, suggest those are simply placeholder pointers. The code below it shows how physical and special attacks were determined during Generation I (the same as II and III before it was revamped for IV). If the type of the move is greater than or equal to 0x14 (decimal 20, which I think was picked because 20 is a nice round number), then it is special, otherwise, it is physical. Therefore, the gap was likely left in because they were uncertain how many types of each they were planning, not because there were ever any there to begin with. -- Stag019 20:54, 23 August 2012 (EDT)

Leftover text

Has anyone checked on this? Seems like there's unused japanese text on R/B. Should it be added to the article? --Calio 01:44, 5 October 2012 (EDT)

Alternate Oak Roster in JP Blue?

According to this Japanese website, Oak's Pokémon Blue roster is made up of:

Pokemon	LV	Move 1	Move 2	Move 3	Move 4	HP	Attack	Defense	Speed	Special
Spearow	L76	Fury Attack	Mirror Move	Drill Peck	Agility	158	109	63	123	64
Muk	L76	Sludge	Harden	Screech	Acid Armor	219	140	93	55	77
Graveler	L76	Selfdestruct	Harden	Earthquake	Explosion	181	163	191	70	85
Missingno.	L76	Mist	TM08	TM14	TM01	403	398	381	333	271

Our wiki states that Oak has:

(1) a level 66 Tauros
(2) a level 67 Exeggutor
(3) a level 68 Arcanine
(4) a level 69 starter
(5) a level 70 Gyarados

So, what's the story? Is his roster different in each version? Or is the Japanese website's stuff garbage data?
--GlitterBerri 20:30, 14 April 2013 (EDT)

Not sure, but I noticed that the one we have listed seems similar to the rival's Pokémon roster in FireRed/LeafGreen (not sure about the original Red/Blue, can't remember that team), but with the third starter rather than the starter the rival actually picked. --AquaBat 21:26, 14 April 2013 (EDT)

I asked iimarckus of the Pokémon Red Disassembly Project, and he checked it out. This is what he had to say:

"Oak's data is unchanged between the Japanese Blue and the English RGB versions. The Japanese user triggered a battle with 'Oak', but it's not really Oak. It just has his pic. The Pokémon data is a glitch roster, as following the instructions on the website and setting CFBF to E2 is one way to display Oak's team, but the game requires some other values to be set, too, and they didn't know that."

--GlitterBerri 22:39, 14 April 2013 (EDT)

Unused Rival text

Some time ago I found a Japanese blog about more unused Japanese text apparently for when the rival defeats the player. In the final game, I'm pretty sure only "(RIVAL): Yeah! Am I great or what?" is used. I found the offsets for where the text appears in the Japanese version, as well as a translation, but the original Japanese text apparently doesn't appear in Red and Blue. In fact, according to IIMarckus' text dump of Pokémon Red it seems to be translated. Here's one of the strings that doesn't appear in game.

<t>English:</t>

"Hahaha! I won, I won!

I'm too good for you, NINTEN!

You did well to even reach me, SONY, the POKéMON genius!"

<t>Japanese:</t>

"はｰはッ！ /かった！ かった！ かった！ /[名前]に まける ような/おれさま では なｰい！ /ま！ <ポケモン>の/てんさい [ライバル名]さま あいてに/ここまで よく がんばった！ /ほめて つかわす！ /はｰッ！ はｰはッはッ！" I'm not sure about the others. --Torchickens 08:27, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

The first seems overexcited, maybe your first Pokemon battle. The 2nd would be the battle by the bridge. The last one would blatantly be used when your rival is champion. I'd say its worth adding. SamuelEarl666 04:38, 25 May 2013 (EDT)

"Oops, wrong side."

This dialogue isn't technically unused, but it usually goes unnoticed; it's triggered after pressing A while facing the left or right side of the TV in Pallet Town. Would this be worth adding?--Ekkusuman88 16:51, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

I wouldn't think so. --Dr. Yay 19:37, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

The table at Pallet Town

Look at the flowers in the vase. The upper left part of the vase appears to be missing a tile. Has anyone else noticed this?--Chpexo 20:12, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

Pokemon Ideas

I just learned to ROM hack last night and I think I may have found what remains of ideas for Pokemon.(Note: I touched it up as best I could to get rid of all the garbage):

DRILL PARENT POISON PIN FAIRY TINY BIRD BALL DRILL HERMITCRAB SEED COCONUT LICKING EGG SLUDGE HADOW POISON PIN DRILL LONELY SPIKES TRANSPORT LEGENDARY NEW SPECIE ATROCIOUS BIVALVE JELLYFISH GAS MANTIS STARSHAPE SHELLFISH STAGBEETLE VINE PUPPY ROCK SNAKE BEAK TINY BIRD DOPEY PSI ROCK EGG SUPERPOWER BARRIER KICKING PUNCHING COBRA MUSHROOM DUCK HYPNOSIS MEGATON SPITFIRE ELECTRIC MAGNET POISON GAS PIG MONKEY SEA LION MOLE WILD BULL WILD DUCK INSECT DRAGON TWIN BIRD TADPOLE HUMANSHAPE FLAME FREEZE ELECTRIC TRANSFORM SCRATCHCAT RIVER CRAB FOX FOX MOUSE MOUSE DRAGON DRAGON SHELLFISH SHELLFISH DRAGON DRAGON MOUSE MOUSE SPIRAL SPIRAL BALLOON BALLOON EVOLUTION FLAME LIGHTNING BUBBLE JET SUPERPOWER BAT SNAKE MUSHROOM TADPOLE TADPOLE HAIRY BUG COCOON POISON BEE TRIPLEBIRD PIG MONKEY MOLE POISONMOTH SEA LION WORM COCOON BUTTERFLY SUPERPOWER DUCK HYPNOSIS BAT GENETIC SLEEPING FISH SLUDGE PINCER BIVALVE BALL FAIRY POISON GAS CLASSY CAT BONEKEEPER GAS PSI o PSI BIRD BIRD MYSTERIOUS SEED SEED JELLYFISH GOLD FISH GOLDFISH FIRE HORSE FIRE HORSE RAT RAT POISON PIN POISON PIN ROCK VIRTUAL FOSSIL MAGNET LIZARD TINY TURTLE FLAME TURTLE FLAME WEED WEED FLOWER FLOWER FLYCATCHER FLYCATCHER

I'm not sure exactly what to make of it, but it seems like ideas for Pokemon, especially because of things like TRIPLEBIRD(the 3 Legendary Birds) and GOLDFISH(Goldeen), etc. Even if this is just developer text, I think it should still be added it. Any other ideas? TheMasterWho 12:36, 15 July 2013 (EDT)