Talk:Pokémon Red and Blue

Surfing for MISSINGNO.

I recall surf does not function as a method to find MISSINGNO. or any other glitch Pokemon in original Japanese Red and Green. Can someone verify this? If I'm correct all of their Cinnabar and Seafoam coastal tiles should have zero wild encounter rate. Theclaw 03:51, 2 July 2012 (EDT)

Ninten & Sony names

These simple names indicate the possibility that the Nintendo/Sony rivalry maybe have been stronger in the pre-Playstation years than previously thought. Along with the enabling of these names come specific modes which allow for a faster advance into game play by eliminating portions to almost all of the opening intro. These two discoveries are quite possibly disabled, leftover development features.

First, I haven't seen any "faster advance" in the intro (only the menus for name entry are removed, which is required for the NINTEN/SONY names to be seen in the first place), and second, Pokemon Red was released in in the US in 1998, about 3 years after the PlayStation.

So yeah, uh, nixed. --Xkeeper 19:30, 21 February 2010 (EST)

Sounds like someone was just confused. "Enabling" these names is done by bypassing the name entry screens. Of course that does slightly reduce the time taken to get through the intro, but it's just a patch, not some leftover feature meant to be "turned on". ⬡ 06:47, 14 June 2012 (EDT)

Default names?

So does anyone know what the default names are for the Japanese releases? And if it varies between revision? --User:Evilhamwizard

Sign your name next time... They're (obviously) different in the Japanese release, but I think they default to developer's names. Not sure exactly. -- Xkeeper (talk) 03:46, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

Here is the answer... Stag019 16:21, 5 January 2011 (EST)

Oak post-victory speech

Does the Oak battle have any text after you kick his ass? -- Xkeeper (talk) 03:46, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

That depends on the roster value. As far as I know though, all of his 'speeches' are either all invalid or undefined. --Torchickens 13:04, 5 July 2010 (EDT)

Correction; yes he can say "Oh no! My POKéMON!" so he will say whatever was registered for the last trainer. --Torchickens 10:40, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

Chief

I heard there's an unused trainer class called "Chief". Someone should really look into this. -- Prince Kassad 12:49, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

Yes, thats well known across 'glitch fanatics'; because a 'Chief' can be encountered by chance if you perform the Old Man Trick whilst having a '-' letter as the 3rd, 5th, 7th, (9th, 11th... ) letter in your name. Therefore the trainer class Chief has a hexadecimal identifier of E3 (227).

About the trainer class itself; no valid rosters have been found for it, nor have any victory speeches when you defeat one. A 'chief' shares its sprite with the 'scientist' trainer class. --Torchickens 08:34, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

Option choice address(es)?

Does anybody happen to know which RAM address(es) determine what options i.e. (YES/NO), (NO/YES), (HEAL/CANCEL), etc. are being managed with in a text box? I haven't had much luck with searching around the game code but the options, according to a text dump appear in this order: --Torchickens 13:59, 9 November 2010 (EST)

NO
YES

YES
NO

NORTH
WEST

SOUTH
EAST

NORTH
EAST

TRADE
CANCEL

HEAL
CANCEL

Red/Green map differences

I could have sworn that Red/Green have map differences in caves compared to American R/B/Y. --Oaa 14:21, 14 November 2010 (EST)

I know that R/G has a completely different Unknown Dungeon layout compared to the American R/B/Y. A rip comparing the two would be useful. Teflon 14:31, 14 November 2010 (EST)

That's probably why there's a ton of unused maps. IIRC Victory Road was quite a bit harder.--Oaa 14:35, 14 November 2010 (EST)

I dumped all of them, feel free to incorporate them into the article. Also, the deleted maps have nothing to do with this at all. I checked Victory Road, but the layout is the same.--Tauwasser 21:24, 14 November 2010 (EST)

????? item

Does the ????? item use the same name in the Japanese version? --Smallhacker 16:41, 20 January 2011 (EST)

MISSINGNO.

I think this needs elaborated on a little bit. In the game, different structures are stored in different orders: Most data is stored in internal id order (which most people assume is the order they were created in), while a few things are stored in Pokedex number order. In order to determine the Pokedex number when given an id number, there is a lookup table. Every single MISSINGNO. (and coincidentally 'M) has this number set to zero.

An example of something stored in id order is names. Each MISSINGNO. has it's own name, which is uniquely placed in the rom, but otherwise the exact same string repeated 39 times. Another example is Pokedex data. MISSINGNO. points to data that defines it as a "??? Pokemon", however, the weight and height is almost certainly "garbage data forced into a Pokemon template". The final important example is that each MISSINGNO. has unique data for it's cry. While most just use type zero cry of zero pitch and zero length (fairly similar to Nidoran M's cry), there are indeed a few unique ones (see here). This is the biggest hint that these were once real Pokemon. It may also be worth noting that each individual MISSINGNO. has a pointer to different data telling it not to evolve or learn any new moves at new levels (simply two 0x00 bytes).

When something is stored in Pokedex order, things get slightly more complicated. When most things look for data in data tables, Bulbasaur (number one) is stored first. Since adding the start address to the number (multiplied by the length of the data) wouldn't work, one is subtracted from the number first. When one is subtracted from zero for MISSINGNO., it underflows to 0xFF. That means that it's base stats reads from "garbage data forced into a Pokemon template". More info on that is here.

Obviously, this big long explaination doesn't need to be given, but some of this information (specifically the cries) may be important. Also, I just don't like the way the sentence "not garbage data forced into a Pokémon template" sounds. -- Stag019 21:22, 29 January 2011 (EST)

Differences in assumable prototype versions

"The (TRAINER TYPE) wants to fight!"

There has been a prototype screenshot of the trainer fight with Brock in the official manual, pp. 7 and 25. It shows that the prototype dialogue would say "The TRAINERNAME[NL]wants to fight!" instead of "TRAINERNAME wants[NL]to fight!". Additionally, in earlier pre-release screenshots promoting the games there is a screenshot of the player encountering Misty; "The MISTY wants to fight."

Prototype	Final
File:PKMN RB U Brock Beta.jpg

"(POKéMON) CUT down a bush!"

In a screenshot on p. 31 of the official player's guide for Pokémon Red and Blue, "(POKéMON) CUT[NL]down a bush!" is used instead of the usual message "(POKéMON) hacked[NL]away with CUT!" when using Cut on a bush. This was changed because Cut can also be used to chop down tall grass, and the same text string is used for both purposes.

Prototype	Final
File:PKMN RB U Cut Beta.png

Lavender Town Music Edit -- Myth?

I've listened to the supposedly different version of Lavender's theme from 1.0, but it doesn't sound any different from the regular version. Just to check, I made a comparison MP3 -- left channel is the OGG from the wiki page, right channel is recorded from my Blue version. As far as I can tell, the themes are 100% identical. Any weird stuff you hear comes from speeding up Blue's theme because the Green one was something like .161% slower, probably from poor recording or transcoding. Unless I'm missing something, I'm pretty sure this is just more ridiculous rumormongering over Lavender's music. Supper 13:46, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

Probably, then. I heard a difference, but that's probably just confirmation bias (expected a difference, so perceived the music differently) at work there. Shall I remove it? --Afti 14:17, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

You might as well, since they're pretty clearly identical. Supper 14:33, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

Unused Song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKMW7E8tbGU This may be of interest... --Oaa 14:17, 16 January 2012 (EST)

Oh wait nevermind it's already been added. --Oaa 14:57, 16 January 2012 (EST)

Cross post the post I made at Skeetendo:

I believe I found the song in Yoshi for the Gameboy as well (Yoshi (U) [!].gb to be more precise). I don't know for sure, but the data seems similar with some differences. I don't know if it's actual sound data or not, can someone with more knowledge look at this?

I believe there are 3 channels, located at:

Ch1 - 0x7960

Ch2 - 0x7A25

Ch3 - 0x7AF0

I can't seem to find any data like this in Nontan to Issho, though. Perhaps they used a different driver for that game.

Also, are you sure that channel 3 is located at 0xAA6F? I think it's located at 0xAA76...Evilhamwizard 15:21, 22 January 2012 (EST)

As for the first question, it is music data, but it isn't the unused Pokémon song. I'm not very familiar with the game, so I'm not sure if it is even unused. I can tell from the pointers (at 0x7CC4-0x7D8C in the same ROM you used) that the third channel pointer you listed is actually the first pointer for a different track, though.

In regards to that last question, I don't think a third channel exists for the song at all. 0xAA76 is the starting location of Viridian/Pewter/Saffron City's first channel. --Mattrizzle 16:38, 22 January 2012 (EST)

I downloaded all the Music from Red/Blue and I may also have the Real unused track. The notes are not actually that high either. SamuelEarl666

Fixing the Old Age

I'm not sure what you mean by old age but some stuff in this deserves to go in a Sub-page instead of the one mile long page at the moment. From: SamuelEarl666

Unobtainable item

The Pokemon Red disassembly project has recently been working on hidden objects. We've determined the reason the ItemFinder goes off in this area is because there is indeed a hidden item. However, it's located off the boundaries of the map and is therefore quite literally unobtainable. This item is a Nugget, and is located at the coordinates 10, 1. This has me come to the conclusion that the map was not originally the Safari Zone entrance, and was changed during development without the hidden item removed (this data is far separated from map data).

In addition, there's also a hidden Max Elixer in the unused map 0x6F at the coordinates 14, 11. Take out of that what you want. -- Stag019 03:39, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

I'm putting this here because the same code (hidden objects) helped me make this discovery. ubitux had a script that would show any hidden objects (not just items) located out-of-bounds. Three more were found in addition to the Nugget in the Safari Zone entrance. See also this. -- Stag019 03:40, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

...Huh.

So, I periodically check on Bulbapedia's "beta" articles to see if anything interesting and verifiable shows up there. Usually this is disappointing, but today I actually found something of note.

I noticed this a few minutes ago. This is new to me, and it's interesting- very early map of Kanto. Part of the Capsule Monsters pitch, and very much notable. I don't think it'd be wise to place in the main article, but it's information which may come in handy. At any rate, it proves that for all Red and Blue's development issues, the basic layout of Kanto has been constant.

It also suggests the origin of the extra, empty "town" map; all of the individually-labeled boxes (both the numbered ones and the one labeled T, which became Saffron City) hold the locations of towns in the final game. The box labeled C, the one disconnected from everything, doesn't correspond to any final towns, however. So, while I don't think it's ironclad to the point where it's worth putting in the article, I think that's by far the most plausible origin of the empty "town" map. Doesn't say much on what it was for or how you'd access it with no connecting routes, though! --Afti 02:39, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Very interesting! I wonder if it corresponds at all to a real-world Japanese town, presuming the :Kanto locations are based on cities in the real Kanto area of Japan. Saffron City seems to correspond to Tokyo, which is about right. So what would a town just below :Tokyo have been similar to? Yokohama? Kawasaki?

--GlitterBerri 06:15, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

If we're speculation-ing it up:

T = Tokyo

C = ???

--Afti 14:39, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

While this is interesting (and speculated upon here), remember that the article is for solid facts of data left in the ROM, or pre-release pictures that clearly demonstrate that and while you might think to link this up with the unused city, I feel it's more speculation than solid evidence. Also keep in mind that Kanto is only loosely based off the region of Japan, for example, the safari zone is based the Fuji-Hakone-Izu National Park, which doesn't fit into the Pokemon world in the same place as it does in Japan. Also, I like the descriptive title (>_>). And to GlitterBerri, Both Saffron and Celedon correspond to Tokyo. Yokohama corresponds to Vermillion. Read more about it on Bulbapedia -- Stag019 21:07, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Don't worry; I'm well aware that this doesn't belong in the article! But it's still interesting to discuss, and having this here on the talk page would be useful if anything more conclusive comes out of the data. --Afti 04:19, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Red/Green & Blue Sprite Comparison

Should we include a comparison between the Red/Green sprites and the Blue/International sprites? I think it counts a regional difference, at the least. --From: divingkataetheweirdo 12:28, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

Given that we also have the Red/Green glitches in here, it would only make sense. But boy, that would be a lot of sprites to describe. -- Sheeza 13:13, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

And also, many of these sprites are covered on other well-known sites, so it seems like a lot of effort for relatively little gain. >_> --Nicole 13:40, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

I actually would feel it'd contribute somewhat to the page, even as a subpage. It's kinda hard to call it 'complete' without completely covering the subject.--Kung Fu Man 21:58, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

I actually feel that despite perhaps being a "regional" difference, it doesn't really belong in this wiki (nor do the other Japanese Blue differences). But no one has really come to a consensus as what does or doesn't qualify for inclusion in this page (seeing as how it really covers 15 games, or at least 7 unique games) I haven't really begun to try adding new things or seperating out regional/versionn differences into its own page yet. -- Stag019 23:07, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

In my experience, plenty of sites have the changed sprites, but just sort of murmur about there being "other changes" between red/green and blue. We should at least keep the other version differences, and if someone wants to take the time to upload and catalog the sprites (it should definitely get a subpage) then so much the better. --Fry's Dead Dog _{(I will wait for you)} 23:37, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

Article overhaul

I did an overhaul to the article. While it might still not be perfect, I reorganized it a lot and added some information that was missing. I believe it is much better now. Please leave feedback. :) SatoMew 14:58, 4 August 2012 (EDT)