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Proto talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver/Spaceworld 1997/Pokémon

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Not crazy on listing unofficial English names of Pokemon on this page, even with the disclaimer. Could we maybe just give the etymologies of the Japanese names instead? --GoldS (talk) 22:13, 31 May 2018 (EDT)

Agreed with this. Etymologies work better here. --From: divingkataetheweirdo (talk) 22:29, 31 May 2018 (EDT)
About etymologies, Berurun might be transliterated as Bellulun. That looks like a crescent moon on the sprite's forehead. Mammal Sauce (talk) 13:24, 8 June 2018 (EDT)

Venomoth's Beta Sprite

Venomoth's Beta Sprite actually uses a design that was in the Red and Green Early Artwork. It isn't noted, and since I can't edit it I'm putting it here for anyone who can. Just feel like it should be noted. --Chippy2001 (talk) 14:30, 24 June 2018 (EDT)

"Final" sprites

Noticed that the "Final" sprites displayed on this page are the modified sprites from the international releases rather than those from the original Japanese version - only a handful of sprites are different between the two, but the differences between these are detailed here on TCRF. For a clearer view of how the prototype sprites developed into the final ones, shouldn't any of the "final" sprites which differ between the Japansese and international version show the versions from the original Japanese release in this instance? For example, there are details in Flaaffy and Qwilfish's back sprites which match up between the proto and the Japanese final, but were later changed for the international releases. This would also apply to trainer sprites once they have their own page, as some changes were made to the international releases there, too. --McAleeCh (talk) 04:00, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

I think we should also add sprites from both Gold and Silver versions Snugglefox (talk) 01:40, 2 June 2018 (EDT)
Hmm, that depends - many of the proto sprites are clearly early versions of sprites used in the final Gold version, so it makes sense to use the Gold sprites as the direct point of comparison. Are there any sprites in the proto set which are definitely earlier revisions of sprites used in the final Silver version? If so, I'd agree that the Silver sprites should be added; if not, I'd suggest leaving them out but perhaps adding a note that both the Gold and Silver demos use the same sprites, whereas each final version has its own unique sprite set. --McAleeCh (talk) 03:41, 2 June 2018 (EDT)
Having looked into this further, the only proto sprite which seems to have a clear link to any of the Silver sprites is Marill's - the pose is the same as the final Silver sprite, though the final's appears to have been completely redrawn from scratch rather than simply tweaked to match the Pokémon's finalised design. Since it's only this one sprite which has a clear link, I don't think adding the Silver sprites for all Pokémon to the page would be worthwhile - instead, I've simply added a note recognising that Marill's proto sprite appears to have inspired its final Silver sprite. --McAleeCh (talk) 10:48, 4 June 2018 (EDT)
Also, since nobody seems to have raised any objections to the idea, I've gone ahead and replaced the few sprites which differ between the Japanese and international releases with their Japanese versions, and added a note to that effect at the top of the page. Several of the sprites share details between the proto and Japanese final versions which were then erased in the international sprites, so comparing with the earlier release gives a clearer view of their development. Examples include the separation of Flaaffy's mane and hair, the split shell on Pinsir's back and the markings on Qwilfish's tail. Rather than replacing the sprites which were previously uploaded, I've simply relinked the page to display the already-uploaded versions of the relevant Japanese sprites which were present on this page, so it should be easy to revert if there's a legitimate reason to do so. --McAleeCh (talk) 11:30, 4 June 2018 (EDT)

Marking Unreleased Pokemon

I think it would be a good idea to mark the names of unused/unreleased Pokemon listed in the article with a subscript one (¹), with an explanation at the bottom of the page clarifying that the marked Pokemon went unreleased in the final game. Doing this could help distinguish the Pokemon that did make it to the final game from the ones that didn't. May take some work, but it'll pay off, I promise! --Wumbo (talk) 15:34, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

Leftover Gen 1 Missingno. Cry Data

The following Pokémon seem to be using the leftover Missingno. cry data (albeit slightly modified) from gen 1:

Gen 1 ID Hex Pokémon Gen 2 Pokedex No.
0x43 Elebabee 219
0x45 Bellossom 221
0x4F Belmitt 222
0x51 Bomseaker 224
0x5E Electiger 227
0x5F Madame 228
0x7F Happi 232
0x89 Devull 235
0xB5 Sneasel 246

Ds22 (talk) 21:46, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

Base stats of pokemon

Via the fight debug menu, I checked a few of the pokemon's base stats, unfortunately, the base stats are all the same except oddly Miltank's HP, which seems to be about 100 compared the rest's 50.Hexatendo (talk) 01:14, 4 June 2018 (EDT)
How many did you check? It appears that multiple new Pokémon have varying base stats, such as the starters. For example, Aquaria differs with (75, 60, 70, 65, 60, 50) PRIZZA (talk) 10:25, 7 June 2018 (EDT)

Gorebyss / Grotesque

Is it possible that Grotesque became Gorebyss? Should this be noted on the page? Sorry if this doesn't belong here. Also forgot to sign -Verveblade14 (talk) 21:15, 5 June 2018 (EDT)

I had a similar thought. The evolutionary line resembles an early Carvanha -> Sharpedo -> Huntail/Gorebyss. Mammal Sauce (talk) 13:24, 8 June 2018 (EDT)
You probably mean Huntail, which is from the same evolutionary family as Gorebyss and looks closer to Gurotesu. How about noting the possibility that Gurotesu may have inspired Huntail in the article? Redz (talk) 23:19, 16 July 2018 (EDT)


The page is protected at present so I can't edit this myself - however, I've noticed that Blissey's final Pokédex number wasn't added back into the main 152-251 table when its final sprites and name were. Would someone with the necessary permissions be able to correct this accidental omission? --McAleeCh (talk) 08:39, 7 June 2018 (EDT)

I'll readd it. When I protected the page I knew there were a few errors; thanks for reminding me --Xk-sig.png Xkeeper (talk) 12:28, 7 June 2018 (EDT)
No problem - thanks for correcting it. The only other error I've noticed is that the numbers discussed in the Unreleased Pokémon section (re: how many Pokémon made it to the final game in some form or another and how many didn't) now don't match what's shown in the table itself. The article text currently says 60 Pokémon made it to the final and 40 didn't - however, the 152-251 table compares 62 Pokémon with their final counterparts, which would mean only 38 didn't make it to the final in some form. The criteria being used for counting those which underwent design revisions is also a bit ambiguous - the current text states 29 major or minor changes, but if counting all minor design changes the number can be as high as 39! That's also without even counting colour-only changes, such as Espeon being yellow rather than purple, or Ledyba being green rather than red. Since it's all a little subjective, I wonder if it might be better to just remove the note of how many underwent design changes entirely? --McAleeCh (talk) 11:16, 8 June 2018 (EDT)

Index numbers

Does the demo use generation 1 or 2 index numbers? Mammal Sauce (talk) 13:24, 8 June 2018 (EDT)

Generation 2. The Pokémon have the same order as shown in the article (the same as the National Pokédex) TheDoc (Talk) 09:47, 9 June 2018 (EDT)

Front sprite consistency

Just a quick note - I've replaced all the "final" front sprites with full 56x56 rips, to ensure more consistent presentation between the proto and final sprites. --McAleeCh (talk) 14:37, 9 June 2018 (EDT)

Error in 152-251 table

In the 152-251 table, a duplicate of Girafarig's final back sprite is where its' final front sprite should be. I would've fixed this myself had the page not been protected. --Luigi-San (talk) 01:15, 29 June 2018 (EDT)

The above issue has been fixed, but I've noticed another - the English name of Jigglypuff's pre-evolution is wrong in the table. It's currently written as Igglypuff, but should be Igglybuff. --McAleeCh (talk) 06:22, 3 July 2018 (EDT)
Fixed that. --From: divingkataetheweirdo (talk) 21:39, 3 July 2018 (EDT)


Looks to be based on the glaucid sea slug. I always thought it would make a good pokemon. --Mammal Sauce (talk) 02:23, 30 June 2018 (EDT)

It's not reflected in the name at all if that's the case. --From: divingkataetheweirdo (talk) 02:32, 30 June 2018 (EDT)

Translated spreadsheet is gone!

Hey! So I needed to hop onto the spreadsheet for reasons, and I was met with the "This is against our terms of service" error. Can anyone explain to me how this could've happened and where I can get a backup? Thanks! Also, can we get an update to the page linking to this new spreadsheet that isn't TOS terminated? Bloxis (talk)

Shizaasu/Scissors (Prototype Hassam/Scizor) has the wrong menu sprite

This page lists Shizaasu as using the "bird" menu sprite in the prototype, when it actually uses the "bug" one. I would've fixed this myself but this page has been protected for a long time. If someone with permission to edit the page can fix this, it'd be greatly appreciated. Here is a screenshot for proof. I took this when the prototype was first released, since I documented all of the menu sprites for the Pokémon using the in-game battle debug menu. You can also check in-game yourself. Thanks in advance. --Martin Strada (talk) 04:01, 15 March 2019 (EDT)

Checking Movesets

If possible, we should probably examine each Pokemon's moves as well as documenting them. For the ones that ended up making it in the final game, we could indicate no change to their moves have been made. How this will be accomplished is beyond me, but I know some people would love to learn this information. Originally, I also suggested doing this with base stats, but it looks like someone has already brought that up (would still be nice to document as well). --Xwasp (talk) 04:31, 29 March 2019 (EDT)