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Proto talk:Sonic the Hedgehog 3

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November 3, 1993 proto

Is that going here or under the S&K page? I imagine it'd fit best here instead since it's before S3's release. MrMrMANGOMILK (talk) 18:58, 16 November 2019 (EST)

It says Sonic 3 on the title. My vote is here. N. Onymous (talk) 18:59, 16 November 2019 (EST)

Files for all the prototype music!

The good folks over at Hidden Palace recorded the whole OST on real hardware and released it in a few formats. OGG download here for anyone who wants to pick up where I left off with the music (I'm tired lol). I got all the Sonic 3 exclusive tracks, I think, so you'll be able to use S3K as well if you want. MrMrMANGOMILK (talk) 21:24, 16 November 2019 (EST)


While all the talk surrounds the new tracks that were later used in the Sonic and Knuckles collection on PC, I think it's interesting how tracks like Angel Island are composed slightly differently, with different FM synth instrumentation. They seem to also use the same drums used in the first two games, while the final version opts for lesser quality but more varied percussion. Another interesting thing to note is how it priorities audio channels in Angel Island, as I heard during the livestream. Clearly they didn't get the channel priority quite right, since the melodic instruments are cutting out when sound effects play as opposed to less important instruments like chords and harmonies and what not muting first as they do in the final game. --Joe411 (talk) 00:15, 17 November 2019 (EST)

I'm working on getting better rips of the music for comparison, and for Flying Battery Zone I should record the S3 version (with desync), right? --8SomaCruzes (talk) 03:18, 22 November 2019 (EST)

Final means the final version. So no, I'd say you should just upload the final cut. That's just me, though. --kaidigem (talk) 07:50, 22 November 2019 (EST)

AIZ1 Debug Item

Does anyone know what this does even? From what I understand it places a garbled sprite that zooms far out, before zooming back in. In the process it completely culls everything outside the level almost and replaces it with weird invisible garbage tiles. Going further out it seems to repeat the tiles, similarly to that of the removed zones. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386552664260870146/645816675308142602/weird_debug.gif

It appears to be a transition point for the level. This can be observed in Mushroom Hill zone in Sonic and Knuckles, where the level will unload geometry at certain points. This in particular appears to be the transition point used just before the "torching" of Act 1. Dasragnerok (talk) 03:21, 27 November 2019 (EST)

Knuckles "trap" glitch?

Playing as Knuckles after Angel Island gets torched, reaching certain Y-coordinates can cause him do die for some reason. Using the level select to reach this area, this doesn't happen. I found this strange and I'd like to point it out here. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/519069131958517761/646527003452899328/KnuxTrap.gif --MCTravisYT (talk) 20:54, 19 November 2019 (EST)

Sonic & Knuckles Zone Comparisons

Just a thought - for the Zones present in the final Sonic 3, the comparisons are between this proto and the next known stage of development, which in that case is the final game. However, the leftover data for Sonic & Knuckles stages cut from this build are being compared with their counterparts in the final Sonic & Knuckles, rather than the next known stage of development which is the Sonic 3C 0408 Proto. Shouldn't the 0408 proto be used for the comparisons instead, to give a clearer idea of the step-by-step development of these Zones? This would also apply to the in-progress attempts to restore Lava Reef Zone Act 2 - if I'm reading the page correctly, the current versions are restoring using chunk data originating from the final Sonic & Knuckles, whereas it's possible the 0408 proto may be a more appropriate source. --McAleeCh (talk) 13:28, 25 November 2019 (EST)

That sounds good to me, my vote's on that. Hopefully one of the higher-ups sees this. --kaidigem (talk) 13:48, 25 November 2019 (EST)
You're absolutely right, they are forgetting about the Sonic 3C 0408 prototype which can give us a lot of information on how to restore the corrupted Sonic 3 Nov 3, 1993 prototype datas. I don't find it interesting to use data from the final version. --Porcino (talk) 14:13, 25 November 2019 (EST)
Of course this makes total sense, but my reasoning behind doing it the way it is was that I have no data split off the 0408 prototype yet to fully dump its maps, where's of S&K we have it readily available, although soon we might have something here.
Also McAleeCh, the block mappings & art of the 0408 LRZ2 is exactly the same as the final S&K, only the palette differs (I decided not to use it to better visualise the actual layout differences, the actual palette from the 1103 proto doesn't fit the final art at all) --Jorge Nuno (talk) 16:53, 25 November 2019 (EST)
Thanks for replying - hopefully it can be updated with 0408 map comparisons when the data is available. Thanks also for correcting my assumption re: the block mappings etc. - I wasn't aware that for this stage they are the same as the final Sonic & Knuckles in the 0408 proto, so it's good to know nothing is being lost by using the final game as the source for these. --McAleeCh (talk) 17:28, 26 November 2019 (EST)

Knuckles' questionable collision

I figure I'd make a thread on this since the main article currently lists it as being in need of investigation. I do have a theory though, that being the game matching his location with Sonic's abilities. The game thinks you're somewhere when in reality you're somewhere else, which may have something to do with Knuckles' lower jump height. Dasragnerok (talk) 03:24, 27 November 2019 (EST)

The cause for this has been discussed in this post on the Sonic Retro forums - it seems that when playing as Knuckles, the player object simply doesn't set the collision plane correctly when spawned. I've gone ahead and added this info to the page - there's other info in that topic which should also be added (such as an unreferenced archive of older Hydrocity Zone enemy art which is missing the Bugernaut badnik, and contains an early version of Turbo Spiker that's half the size of the final version), but I'm afraid I'm short on time right now. If nobody else has added it before then, I'll try to comb through and add more when I have the chance. --McAleeCh (talk) 05:11, 27 November 2019 (EST)

Tornado Cutscene?

Could anyone rip the sprites at this address? Offset 12BB0F I am very curious to know what it is, it contains Tails, the tornado plane, an unused shadow and other suspicious things. --Porcino (talk) 22:16, 30 November 2019 (EST)

I'm presuming this is the art associated with the unfinished version of the Angel Island Zone Tornado cutscene detailed in this post in the same Sonic Retro thread I mentioned above. An unfinished version of the Carnival Night Zone Act 2 Knuckles cutscene also exists and is detailed in the same post. I've still not had any time to migrate this info over to the article as I'm looking after my baby at present - if anyone with more free time is able to, the help would be most appreciated! --McAleeCh (talk) 06:02, 1 December 2019 (EST)

Other Prototype musics

...

Hydrocity, Marble Garden, Death Egg Zone, Azure Lake still have a small difference between Beta 93' and Final

Ffffff (talk) 18:44, 7 December 2019 (EST)

I thought they did too. Do you know any of changes in particular though? --Chainspike (talk) 12:16, 13 December 2019 (EST)

Possible connection between AIZ unused palette and Sonic Jam Game.com version

In post #42 of this thread on Sonic Retro discussing prototype assets in the Game.com version of Sonic Jam, a user provides a pre-release screenshot of that game that depicts Angel Island with an ocean background, instead of the usual forest (albeit with some mountains added). Could this perhaps be connected to the unused Angel Island Zone palette in this Sonic 3 prototype, which also seems to mix the forest and ocean assets? WhoIAm (talk) 04:19, 20 January 2020 (EST)

Super Sonic Shooting Rings?

I can't find a way to make Super Sonic shoot rings as the General Differences section states. Does he even have the ability? EXEcutorTheBat (talk) 00:49, 23 July 2020 (EST)

UPDATE: nevermind, I found a code on Hidden Palace a few months ago to activate it.