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Talk:Pokémon Red and Blue

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Unused Trainer Battles

Recently played through Pokemon Red (US) ticking off the trainers one by one and found there are a number unused. My reference list is Ultimate Pokemon Center, which includes the infamous Prof Oak roster. But there's a number of cooltrainers in particular that go unused which suggest there was supposed to be some additional dungeon between Victory Road and Indigo Plateau. Compare the list of cooltrainers and gentlemen with the lists on bulbapedia for example and the following have no battleable trainer corresponding to them:

1E: COOLTRAINERmA (Base Money: 35)

   04: L45 KINGLER; L45 STARMIE
   06: L44 IVYSAUR; L44 WARTORTLE; L44 CHARMELEON
   07: L49 NIDOKING
   08: L44 KINGLER; L44 CLOYSTER

1F: COOLTRAINERfE (Base Money: 35)

   04: L46 VILEPLUME; L46 BUTTERFREE
   06: L45 IVYSAUR; L45 VENUSAUR
   07: L45 NIDORINA; L45 NIDOQUEEN
   08: L43 PERSIAN; L43 NINETALES; L43 RAICHU

28: GENTLEMAN (Base Money: 70)

   04: L48 PRIMEAPE

I think this unused data is on par with the unused Oak data, someone could compile a full list of all the unused trainer rosters.Note the lack of L48 Primeape for example. --Drogna 08:28, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

Interesting. TheZZAZZGlitch made lists of all Trainers in Generation I but they include many glitch rosters as well. I'm wondering if you might find it useful. Link. --Torchickens 07:20, 2 August 2013 (EDT)
Thanks for the link. There are a lot of repetitions here, for example:

TRAINER F1 (Mew Glitch special stat = 241) Trainer class: Gentleman


Roster #01 --------------------------------------------

Growlithe (hex 21) - level 18 Growlithe (hex 21) - level 18


Roster #02 --------------------------------------------

Nidoran (Male) (hex 03) - level 19 Nidoran (Female) (hex 0F) - level 19


Roster #03 --------------------------------------------

Pikachu (hex 54) - level 23


Roster #04 --------------------------------------------

Primeape (hex 75) - level 48


Roster #05 --------------------------------------------

Growlithe (hex 21) - level 17 Ponyta (hex A3) - level 17


Roster #06 --------------------------------------------

Pidgeotto (hex 96) - level 19 Raticate (hex A6) - level 16 Kadabra (hex 26) - level 18 Wartortle (hex B3) - level 20

then continues with all the rival rosters in order, which also appear following the Rival header elsewhere in the text file. I think removing all these repetitions somehow (which is what upokecenter appear to have done in the way they made the list, would give a concise list). Note that the L48 Primeape is between the legit rosters, ie. it should definitely belong to Gentleman. There's less than 50 extra trainers that appear this way. I found that there were no extra swimmers, but there is a youngster with three L17 pokes that don't correspond to anything. The quickest way to list all these unused trainers would be to compare the lists under the upokecenter data with the bulbapedia lists under trainer class that they constructed through real gameplay and lists the locations to verify the real trainers. This was how I came across trainers that I thought had missed - then realised Bulba didn't list them either. I'm not saying the longer list is 'wrong' but the only new things in it are the glitch sets which are filler data. These unused trainers like the L48 Primape Gentleman look like they were once intended to be placed in the game. A hacked ROM could create extra trainers with these rosters to complete the original plan, like these ROMs that have extra pokemon in them (ie could do 190). Anyway I think there's sense in making a list of the sensible unused rosters for general knowledge. --Drogna 08:27, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

One more think I forgot - is it possible that the duplicate Chaneller rosters are actually the wild pokemon unmasked by the silph scope? There's no cubones but the levels look similar. Maybe to make the ghost effect work right it has ghosts in the wild roster than redirects to this data? The higher level chanellers are from Sabrina's gym but there are a lot more lower level ones than appear in the Pokemon Tower.

No, the unused Channeler rosters are definitely trainers, and definitely not wild Pokémon.
That list is not very useful for finding beta trainers. It was compiled to get a list of all possible trainer events you can force to happen through glitching, whether natural or unnatural. Personally I don’t see the point of such a list.
A more useful list, containing all extant trainer data in RBY, is in the Pokémon Red disassembly. This includes Yellow trainers. I checked, and the English Red/Blue have no differences in trainer data compared to Japanese Red/Green/Blue.
Using the disassembly, I’ve done some checking of which trainers could potentially be unused. Here is the complete list (which is really “trainer data without map object data associated with them”; it’s possible they are still used somewhere, as rival also has no map object data associated with him but his battles still get triggered through scripts).
   beauty $b        db 33,WEEPINBELL,BELLSPROUT,WEEPINBELL,0
   bird keeper $c   db 39,PIDGEOTTO,PIDGEOTTO,PIDGEY,PIDGEOTTO,0
   bird keeper $d   db 42,FARFETCH_D,FEAROW,0
   bug catcher $c   db 18,METAPOD,CATERPIE,VENONAT,0
   burglar $1       db 29,GROWLITHE,VULPIX,0
   burglar $2       db 33,GROWLITHE,0
   burglar $3       db 28,VULPIX,CHARMANDER,PONYTA,0
   channeler $1     db 22,GASTLY,0
   channeler $2     db 24,GASTLY,0
   channeler $3     db 23,GASTLY,GASTLY,0
   channeler $4     db 24,GASTLY,0
   channeler $7     db 24,HAUNTER,0
   channeler $b     db 24,GASTLY,0
   channeler $d     db 24,GASTLY,0
   channeler $f     db 24,GASTLY,0
   cooltrainer♀ $4  db 46,VILEPLUME,BUTTERFREE,0
   cooltrainer♀ $6  db 45,IVYSAUR,VENUSAUR,0
   cooltrainer♀ $7  db 45,NIDORINA,NIDOQUEEN,0
   cooltrainer♀ $8  db 43,PERSIAN,NINETALES,RAICHU,0
   cooltrainer♂ $4  db 45,KINGLER,STARMIE,0
   cooltrainer♂ $6  db 44,IVYSAUR,WARTORTLE,CHARMELEON,0
   cooltrainer♂ $7  db 49,NIDOKING,0
   cooltrainer♂ $8  db 44,KINGLER,CLOYSTER,0
   engineer $1      db 21,VOLTORB,MAGNEMITE,0
   gambler $6       db 22,ONIX,GEODUDE,GRAVELER,0
   gentleman $4     db 48,PRIMEAPE,0
   jr trainer♀ $4   db 22,BULBASAUR,0
   juggler $6       db 33,HYPNO,0
   rocket $16       db 26,DROWZEE,KOFFING,0
   scientist $1     db 34,KOFFING,VOLTORB,0
   super nerd $6    db 22,KOFFING,MAGNEMITE,WEEZING,0
   super nerd $7    db 20,MAGNEMITE,MAGNEMITE,KOFFING,MAGNEMITE,0
   super nerd $8    db 24,MAGNEMITE,VOLTORB,0
   tamer $6         db 42,RHYHORN,PRIMEAPE,ARBOK,TAUROS,0
   youngster $d     db 17,SPEAROW,RATTATA,RATTATA,SPEAROW,0
There are also three trainers used twice: Gentleman $3 (Vermilion Gym + SS Anne), Hiker $b (Rock Tunnel + Route 9), and Jr. Trainer♂ $2 (Route 24 + Route 25). IIMarckus 03:51, 16 August 2013 (EDT)

That list is awesome and exactly the trainers I would have guessed were the extra ones. I think this should be included on the main article, it's as intriguing as the other unused stuff and implies e.g. there may have been trainers between victory road and indigo plateau planned. --Drogna 12:13, 21 August 2013 (EDT)

Surfing for MISSINGNO.

I recall surf does not function as a method to find MISSINGNO. or any other glitch Pokemon in original Japanese Red and Green. Can someone verify this? If I'm correct all of their Cinnabar and Seafoam coastal tiles should have zero wild encounter rate. Theclaw 03:51, 2 July 2012 (EDT)

Pretty much seems like it (at least for Japanese Red). I surfed along the Cinnabar coastal tiles for quite a while and got no random encounters in any of them... Except on the one in the very lower-right corner of the island, but that one only gave me Tentacools, so it may already be getting data from the route next to it. --Cronus 20:37, 13 February 2013 (EST)

Well tile properties changed would itself be a regional difference. Glitch or no glitch. We'd have to look at the programming of Japanese versions to see whether it was possible to begin with for coastal tiles to have wild Pokemon. Theclaw 16:18, 5 April 2013 (EDT)

Ninten & Sony names

These simple names indicate the possibility that the Nintendo/Sony rivalry maybe have been stronger in the pre-PlayStation years than previously thought. Along with the enabling of these names come specific modes which allow for a faster advance into game play by eliminating portions to almost all of the opening intro. These two discoveries are quite possibly disabled, leftover development features.

First, I haven't seen any "faster advance" in the intro (only the menus for name entry are removed, which is required for the NINTEN/SONY names to be seen in the first place), and second, Pokemon Red was released in in the US in 1998, about 3 years after the PlayStation.

So yeah, uh, nixed. --Xkeeper 19:30, 21 February 2010 (EST)

Sounds like someone was just confused. "Enabling" these names is done by bypassing the name entry screens. Of course that does slightly reduce the time taken to get through the intro, but it's just a patch, not some leftover feature meant to be "turned on". 06:47, 14 June 2012 (EDT)
Actually, the debug mode does this. (talk) 21:09, 16 June 2015 (EDT)

Default names?

So does anyone know what the default names are for the Japanese releases? And if it varies between revision? --User:Evilhamwizard

Sign your name next time... They're (obviously) different in the Japanese release, but I think they default to developer's names. Not sure exactly. --Xk-sig.png Xkeeper (talk) 03:46, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

Here is the answer... Stag019 16:21, 5 January 2011 (EST)

Oak post-victory speech

Does the Oak battle have any text after you kick his ass? --Xk-sig.png Xkeeper (talk) 03:46, 29 June 2010 (EDT)

That depends on the roster value. As far as I know though, all of his 'speeches' are either all invalid or undefined. --Torchickens 13:04, 5 July 2010 (EDT)
Correction; yes he can say "Oh no! My POKéMON!" so he will say whatever was registered for the last trainer. --Torchickens 10:40, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

Chief

I heard there's an unused trainer class called "Chief". Someone should really look into this. -- Prince Kassad 12:49, 10 July 2010 (EDT)

Yes, thats well known across 'glitch fanatics'; because a 'Chief' can be encountered by chance if you perform the Old Man Trick whilst having a '-' letter as the 3rd, 5th, 7th, (9th, 11th... ) letter in your name. Therefore the trainer class Chief has a hexadecimal identifier of E3 (227).

About the trainer class itself; no valid rosters have been found for it, nor have any victory speeches when you defeat one. A 'chief' shares its sprite with the 'scientist' trainer class. --Torchickens 08:34, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

Option choice address(es)?

Does anybody happen to know which RAM address(es) determine what options i.e. (YES/NO), (NO/YES), (HEAL/CANCEL), etc. are being managed with in a text box? I haven't had much luck with searching around the game code but the options, according to a text dump appear in this order: --Torchickens 13:59, 9 November 2010 (EST)

NO
YES

YES
NO

NORTH
WEST

SOUTH
EAST

NORTH
EAST

TRADE
CANCEL

HEAL
CANCEL

Red/Green map differences

I could have sworn that Red/Green have map differences in caves compared to American R/B/Y. --Oaa 14:21, 14 November 2010 (EST)

I know that R/G has a completely different Unknown Dungeon layout compared to the American R/B/Y. A rip comparing the two would be useful. Teflon 14:31, 14 November 2010 (EST)

That's probably why there's a ton of unused maps. IIRC Victory Road was quite a bit harder.--Oaa 14:35, 14 November 2010 (EST)

I dumped all of them, feel free to incorporate them into the article. Also, the deleted maps have nothing to do with this at all. I checked Victory Road, but the layout is the same.--Tauwasser 21:24, 14 November 2010 (EST)

????? item

Does the ????? item use the same name in the Japanese version? --Smallhacker 16:41, 20 January 2011 (EST)

MISSINGNO.

I think this needs elaborated on a little bit. In the game, different structures are stored in different orders: Most data is stored in internal id order (which most people assume is the order they were created in), while a few things are stored in Pokedex number order. In order to determine the Pokedex number when given an id number, there is a lookup table. Every single MISSINGNO. (and coincidentally 'M) has this number set to zero.

An example of something stored in id order is names. Each MISSINGNO. has it's own name, which is uniquely placed in the rom, but otherwise the exact same string repeated 39 times. Another example is Pokedex data. MISSINGNO. points to data that defines it as a "??? Pokemon", however, the weight and height is almost certainly "garbage data forced into a Pokemon template". The final important example is that each MISSINGNO. has unique data for it's cry. While most just use type zero cry of zero pitch and zero length (fairly similar to Nidoran M's cry), there are indeed a few unique ones (see here). This is the biggest hint that these were once real Pokemon. It may also be worth noting that each individual MISSINGNO. has a pointer to different data telling it not to evolve or learn any new moves at new levels (simply two 0x00 bytes).

When something is stored in Pokedex order, things get slightly more complicated. When most things look for data in data tables, Bulbasaur (number one) is stored first. Since adding the start address to the number (multiplied by the length of the data) wouldn't work, one is subtracted from the number first. When one is subtracted from zero for MISSINGNO., it underflows to 0xFF. That means that it's base stats reads from "garbage data forced into a Pokemon template". More info on that is here.

Obviously, this big long explaination doesn't need to be given, but some of this information (specifically the cries) may be important. Also, I just don't like the way the sentence "not garbage data forced into a Pokémon template" sounds. -- Stag019 21:22, 29 January 2011 (EST)

I read on Bulbapedia that apparently most Missingno. appearances, if transferred to generation 2, become usable Pokemon introduced in generation 2. This may warrant some more research into both RBY and GSC to see how the information movement is handled, including stats, movesets, etc. --M&L27 (talk) 21:30, 26 February 2015 (EST)

Differences in assumable prototype versions

"The (TRAINER TYPE) wants to fight!"

There has been a prototype screenshot of the trainer fight with Brock in the official manual, pp. 7 and 25. It shows that the prototype dialogue would say "The TRAINERNAME[NL]wants to fight!" instead of "TRAINERNAME wants[NL]to fight!". Additionally, in earlier pre-release screenshots promoting the games there is a screenshot of the player encountering Misty; "The MISTY wants to fight."

Prototype Final
PKMN RB U Brock Early.png PKMN RB U Brock Final.png

"(POKéMON) CUT down a bush!"

In a screenshot on p. 31 of the official player's guide for Pokémon Red and Blue, "(POKéMON) CUT[NL]down a bush!" is used instead of the usual message "(POKéMON) hacked[NL]away with CUT!" when using Cut on a bush. This was changed because Cut can also be used to chop down tall grass, and the same text string is used for both purposes.

Prototype Final
PKMN RB U Cut Early.png PKMN RB U Cut Final.png

Lavender Town Music Edit -- Myth?

I've listened to the supposedly different version of Lavender's theme from 1.0, but it doesn't sound any different from the regular version. Just to check, I made a comparison MP3 -- left channel is the OGG from the wiki page, right channel is recorded from my Blue version. As far as I can tell, the themes are 100% identical. Any weird stuff you hear comes from speeding up Blue's theme because the Green one was something like .161% slower, probably from poor recording or transcoding. Unless I'm missing something, I'm pretty sure this is just more ridiculous rumormongering over Lavender's music. Supper 13:46, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

Probably, then. I heard a difference, but that's probably just confirmation bias (expected a difference, so perceived the music differently) at work there. Shall I remove it? --Afti 14:17, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

You might as well, since they're pretty clearly identical. Supper 14:33, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

Unused Song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKMW7E8tbGU This may be of interest... --Oaa 14:17, 16 January 2012 (EST)

Oh wait nevermind it's already been added. --Oaa 14:57, 16 January 2012 (EST)

Cross post the post I made at Skeetendo:
I believe I found the song in Yoshi for the Gameboy as well (Yoshi (U) [!].gb to be more precise). I don't know for sure, but the data seems similar with some differences. I don't know if it's actual sound data or not, can someone with more knowledge look at this?
I believe there are 3 channels, located at:
Ch1 - 0x7960
Ch2 - 0x7A25
Ch3 - 0x7AF0
I can't seem to find any data like this in Nontan to Issho, though. Perhaps they used a different driver for that game.
Also, are you sure that channel 3 is located at 0xAA6F? I think it's located at 0xAA76...Evilhamwizard 15:21, 22 January 2012 (EST)
As for the first question, it is music data, but it isn't the unused Pokémon song. I'm not very familiar with the game, so I'm not sure if it is even unused. I can tell from the pointers (at 0x7CC4-0x7D8C in the same ROM you used) that the third channel pointer you listed is actually the first pointer for a different track, though.
In regards to that last question, I don't think a third channel exists for the song at all. 0xAA76 is the starting location of Viridian/Pewter/Saffron City's first channel. --Mattrizzle 16:38, 22 January 2012 (EST)

I downloaded all the Music from Red/Blue and I may also have the Real unused track. The notes are not actually that high either. SamuelEarl666

Fixing the Old Age

I'm not sure what you mean by old age but some stuff in this deserves to go in a Sub-page instead of the one mile long page at the moment. From: SamuelEarl666

Unobtainable item

The Pokemon Red disassembly project has recently been working on hidden objects. We've determined the reason the ItemFinder goes off in this area is because there is indeed a hidden item. However, it's located off the boundaries of the map and is therefore quite literally unobtainable. This item is a Nugget, and is located at the coordinates 10, 1. This has me come to the conclusion that the map was not originally the Safari Zone entrance, and was changed during development without the hidden item removed (this data is far separated from map data).

In addition, there's also a hidden Max Elixer in the unused map 0x6F at the coordinates 14, 11. Take out of that what you want. -- Stag019 03:39, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

I'm putting this here because the same code (hidden objects) helped me make this discovery. ubitux had a script that would show any hidden objects (not just items) located out-of-bounds. Three more were found in addition to the Nugget in the Safari Zone entrance. See also this. -- Stag019 03:40, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

...Huh.

So, I periodically check on Bulbapedia's "beta" articles to see if anything interesting and verifiable shows up there. Usually this is disappointing, but today I actually found something of note.

I noticed this a few minutes ago. This is new to me, and it's interesting- very early map of Kanto. Part of the Capsule Monsters pitch, and very much notable. I don't think it'd be wise to place in the main article, but it's information which may come in handy. At any rate, it proves that for all Red and Blue's development issues, the basic layout of Kanto has been constant.

It also suggests the origin of the extra, empty "town" map; all of the individually-labeled boxes (both the numbered ones and the one labeled T, which became Saffron City) hold the locations of towns in the final game. The box labeled C, the one disconnected from everything, doesn't correspond to any final towns, however. So, while I don't think it's ironclad to the point where it's worth putting in the article, I think that's by far the most plausible origin of the empty "town" map. Doesn't say much on what it was for or how you'd access it with no connecting routes, though! --Afti 02:39, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Very interesting! I wonder if it corresponds at all to a real-world Japanese town, presuming the :Kanto locations are based on cities in the real Kanto area of Japan. Saffron City seems to correspond to Tokyo, which is about right. So what would a town just below :Tokyo have been similar to? Yokohama? Kawasaki?
--GlitterBerri 06:15, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
If we're speculation-ing it up:
T = Tokyo
C = ???
--Afti 14:39, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

While this is interesting (and speculated upon here), remember that the article is for solid facts of data left in the ROM, or pre-release pictures that clearly demonstrate that and while you might think to link this up with the unused city, I feel it's more speculation than solid evidence. Also keep in mind that Kanto is only loosely based off the region of Japan, for example, the safari zone is based the Fuji-Hakone-Izu National Park, which doesn't fit into the Pokemon world in the same place as it does in Japan. Also, I like the descriptive title (>_>). And to GlitterBerri, Both Saffron and Celedon correspond to Tokyo. Yokohama corresponds to Vermillion. Read more about it on Bulbapedia -- Stag019 21:07, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

Don't worry; I'm well aware that this doesn't belong in the article! But it's still interesting to discuss, and having this here on the talk page would be useful if anything more conclusive comes out of the data. --Afti 04:19, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

Red/Green & Blue Sprite Comparison

Should we include a comparison between the Red/Green sprites and the Blue/International sprites? I think it counts a regional difference, at the least. --From: divingkataetheweirdo 12:28, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

Given that we also have the Red/Green glitches in here, it would only make sense. But boy, that would be a lot of sprites to describe. -- Sheeza 13:13, 21 April 2012 (EDT)
And also, many of these sprites are covered on other well-known sites, so it seems like a lot of effort for relatively little gain. >_> --Nicole 13:40, 21 April 2012 (EDT)
I actually would feel it'd contribute somewhat to the page, even as a subpage. It's kinda hard to call it 'complete' without completely covering the subject.--Kung Fu Man 21:58, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

I actually feel that despite perhaps being a "regional" difference, it doesn't really belong in this wiki (nor do the other Japanese Blue differences). But no one has really come to a consensus as what does or doesn't qualify for inclusion in this page (seeing as how it really covers 15 games, or at least 7 unique games) I haven't really begun to try adding new things or seperating out regional/versionn differences into its own page yet. -- Stag019 23:07, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

In my experience, plenty of sites have the changed sprites, but just sort of murmur about there being "other changes" between red/green and blue. We should at least keep the other version differences, and if someone wants to take the time to upload and catalog the sprites (it should definitely get a subpage) then so much the better. --Fry's Dead Dog (I will wait for you) 23:37, 21 April 2012 (EDT)

Article overhaul

I did an overhaul to the article. While it might still not be perfect, I reorganized it a lot and added some information that was missing. I believe it is much better now. Please leave feedback. :) SatoMew 14:58, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Please don't make section names lowercase; we've actually been moving away from that elsewhere on the wiki.
Also, please don't expect people reading an article to know what a "well-known" glitch is (ex: "The well-known old man glitch was partially fixed in the Spanish Rojo y Azul"). All glitches should be explained in a clear and concise manner. I'm aware that we have other articles with this problem elsewhere on the wiki, but we're doing our best to fix them whenever we can. --BMF54123 16:53, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
Okay, I see where the "old man" glitch was documented. That section could still be reworded to either briefly describe the glitch again, or link to the section of the article that contains it. --BMF54123 16:57, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
Thanks for the feedback. I've edited the article based on part of it. However, I didn't add back a brief description of the Old Man glitch (at least yet) but decided to add that to the to-do template in the glitch's sub-section in the article. I've also removed the formatting from the bob as you already told me in Yellow's article revision history summary. SatoMew 17:40, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

Minor thing

Entries 0x09 through 0x13 (between Ghost at 0x08 and Fire at 0x14) on the type chart are blank, suggesting a decent chunk of removed types. Is this notable? --Afti 17:58, 16 August 2012 (EDT)

No, because this was programmed in for a reason. As shown here, all of those types point to the same string as normal. While this doesn't prove whether or not they were once used or not, the fact that type 6 (Bird) remains, but no others do, suggest those are simply placeholder pointers. The code below it shows how physical and special attacks were determined during Generation I (the same as II and III before it was revamped for IV). If the type of the move is greater than or equal to 0x14 (decimal 20, which I think was picked because 20 is a nice round number), then it is special, otherwise, it is physical. Therefore, the gap was likely left in because they were uncertain how many types of each they were planning, not because there were ever any there to begin with. -- Stag019 20:54, 23 August 2012 (EDT)

Leftover text

Has anyone checked on this? Seems like there's unused japanese text on R/B. Should it be added to the article? --Calio 01:44, 5 October 2012 (EDT)

Alternate Oak Roster in JP Blue?

According to this Japanese website, Oak's Pokémon Blue roster is made up of:

Pokemon LV Move 1 Move 2 Move 3 Move 4 HP Attack Defense Speed Special
Spearow L76 Fury Attack Mirror Move Drill Peck Agility 158 109 63 123 64
Muk L76 Sludge Harden Screech Acid Armor 219 140 93 55 77
Graveler L76 Selfdestruct Harden Earthquake Explosion 181 163 191 70 85
Missingno. L76 Mist TM08 TM14 TM01 403 398 381 333 271

Our wiki states that Oak has:

(1) a level 66 Tauros
(2) a level 67 Exeggutor
(3) a level 68 Arcanine
(4) a level 69 starter
(5) a level 70 Gyarados

So, what's the story? Is his roster different in each version? Or is the Japanese website's stuff garbage data?
--GlitterBerri 20:30, 14 April 2013 (EDT)

Not sure, but I noticed that the one we have listed seems similar to the rival's Pokémon roster in FireRed/LeafGreen (not sure about the original Red/Blue, can't remember that team), but with the third starter rather than the starter the rival actually picked. --AquaBat 21:26, 14 April 2013 (EDT)
I asked iimarckus of the Pokémon Red Disassembly Project, and he checked it out. This is what he had to say:
"Oak's data is unchanged between the Japanese Blue and the English RGB versions. The Japanese user triggered a battle with 'Oak', but it's not really Oak. It just has his pic. The Pokémon data is a glitch roster, as following the instructions on the website and setting CFBF to E2 is one way to display Oak's team, but the game requires some other values to be set, too, and they didn't know that."
--GlitterBerri 22:39, 14 April 2013 (EDT)

Unused Rival text

Some time ago I found a Japanese blog about more unused Japanese text apparently for when the rival defeats the player. In the final game, I'm pretty sure only "(RIVAL): Yeah! Am I great or what?" is used. I found the offsets for where the text appears in the Japanese version, as well as a translation, but the original Japanese text apparently doesn't appear in Red and Blue. In fact, according to IIMarckus' text dump of Pokémon Red it seems to be translated. Here's one of the strings that doesn't appear in game.

<t>English:</t>

"Hahaha! I won, I won!

I'm too good for you, NINTEN!

You did well to even reach me, SONY, the POKéMON genius!"

<t>Japanese:</t>

"はーはッ! /かった! かった! かった! /[名前]に まける ような/おれさま では なーい! /ま! <ポケモン>の/てんさい [ライバル名]さま あいてに/ここまで よく がんばった! /ほめて つかわす! /はーッ! はーはッはッ!" I'm not sure about the others. --Torchickens 08:27, 23 May 2013 (EDT)

The first seems overexcited, maybe your first Pokemon battle. The 2nd would be the battle by the bridge. The last one would blatantly be used when your rival is champion. I'd say its worth adding. SamuelEarl666 04:38, 25 May 2013 (EDT)

"Oops, wrong side."

This dialogue isn't technically unused, but it usually goes unnoticed; it's triggered after pressing A while facing the left or right side of the TV in Pallet Town. Would this be worth adding?--Ekkusuman88 16:51, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

I wouldn't think so. --Dr. Yay 19:37, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

The table at Pallet Town

Look at the flowers in the vase. The upper left part of the vase appears to be missing a tile. Has anyone else noticed this?--Chpexo 20:12, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

Pokemon blue table.png

Pokemon Ideas

I just learned to ROM hack last night and I think I may have found what remains of ideas for Pokemon.(Note: I touched it up as best I could to get rid of all the garbage):

DRILL PARENT POISON PIN FAIRY TINY BIRD BALL DRILL HERMITCRAB SEED COCONUT LICKING EGG SLUDGE HADOW POISON PIN DRILL LONELY SPIKES TRANSPORT LEGENDARY NEW SPECIE ATROCIOUS BIVALVE JELLYFISH GAS MANTIS STARSHAPE SHELLFISH STAGBEETLE VINE PUPPY ROCK SNAKE BEAK TINY BIRD DOPEY PSI ROCK EGG SUPERPOWER BARRIER KICKING PUNCHING COBRA MUSHROOM DUCK HYPNOSIS MEGATON SPITFIRE ELECTRIC MAGNET POISON GAS PIG MONKEY SEA LION MOLE WILD BULL WILD DUCK INSECT DRAGON TWIN BIRD TADPOLE HUMANSHAPE FLAME FREEZE ELECTRIC TRANSFORM SCRATCHCAT RIVER CRAB FOX FOX MOUSE MOUSE DRAGON DRAGON SHELLFISH SHELLFISH DRAGON DRAGON MOUSE MOUSE SPIRAL SPIRAL BALLOON BALLOON EVOLUTION FLAME LIGHTNING BUBBLE JET SUPERPOWER BAT SNAKE MUSHROOM TADPOLE TADPOLE HAIRY BUG COCOON POISON BEE TRIPLEBIRD PIG MONKEY MOLE POISONMOTH SEA LION WORM COCOON BUTTERFLY SUPERPOWER DUCK HYPNOSIS BAT GENETIC SLEEPING FISH SLUDGE PINCER BIVALVE BALL FAIRY POISON GAS CLASSY CAT BONEKEEPER GAS PSI o PSI BIRD BIRD MYSTERIOUS SEED SEED JELLYFISH GOLD FISH GOLDFISH FIRE HORSE FIRE HORSE RAT RAT POISON PIN POISON PIN ROCK VIRTUAL FOSSIL MAGNET LIZARD TINY TURTLE FLAME TURTLE FLAME WEED WEED FLOWER FLOWER FLYCATCHER FLYCATCHER

I'm not sure exactly what to make of it, but it seems like ideas for Pokemon, especially because of things like TRIPLEBIRD(the 3 Legendary Birds) and GOLDFISH(Goldeen), etc. Even if this is just developer text, I think it should still be added it. Any other ideas? TheMasterWho 12:36, 15 July 2013 (EDT)

These are simply the species names for each Pokémon, in internal order.. For example, Rhyhorn is the Drill Pokémon, Kangashkan is the Parent Pokémon, etc. --Sanky-sig.gif Sanky ~ talk 12:40, 15 July 2013 (EDT)
Yeah, I just realized. Thanks for the info though.--TheMasterWho 12:36, 15 July 2013 (EDT)
Where are those species names shown inside the game? --Sandbox 14:06, 24 August 2013 (EDT)
Pokédex. --Sanky-sig.gif Sanky ~ talk 14:10, 24 August 2013 (EDT)
Sorry for getting back to you so late, I haven't logged in for a while and have had trouble with posting. I tried posting this exact thing minus this sentence 2 months ago, but gave up. The names are located at offset 115234=0x1C222. Hope this helped, and remember to have a thingy table generated first! --TheMasterWho (talk) 21:01, 18 December 2013 (EST)

Hidden party

The section with the hidden pokemon party, what are their moves and (whatever they use for IV/EV), because it would be interesting to know if that Exeggutor and the others had perfect stats (possibly suggesting that they were programed in) and if they had illegal moves or even TM/HM/low leveled moves.TrainerX493 (talk) 12:18, 19 December 2013 (EST)

Only level and species are specified. It uses the same function to generate the Pokémon as your starter, so the IVs are random and the moves are those of a wild Pokémon of the same level. IIMarckus (talk) 17:19, 29 December 2013 (EST)

Mew / Mewtwo

This is a minor thing, and I'm not sure if it is within the scope of TCRF, but I was looking at the Pokémon Website's page on Red/Blue, and this one specific phrase caught my attention (it is below one of the screenshots): "Catching the Legendary Mew will require lots of luck! ". I am not sure if this is them confusing mewtwo with mew, or if it was a change in the way the game was designed. But it is interesting. --Pokechu22 (talk) 23:10, 25 May 2014 (EDT)

They are mistaking with Mewtwo indeed. This page was written by a subcontractor's team of people knowing nearly nothing about Pokémon obviously. --Froggy25 (talk) 02:05, 28 May 2014 (EDT)

X Items open the party menu?

From TheZZAZZGlitch:

The game has an internal list of all items that open the Pokemon menu when used:
Moon Stone, Antidote, Burn Heal, Ice Heal, Awakening, Parlyz Heal, Full Restore, Max Potion, Hyper Potion, Super Potion, Potion, Fire Stone, Thunder Stone, Water Stone, Hp Up, Protein, Iron, Carbos, Calcium, Rare Candy, Leaf Stone, Full Heal, Revive, Max Revive, Fresh Water, Soda Pop, Lemonade, X Attack, X Defend, X Speed, X Special, Pp Up, Ether, Max Ether, Elixer, Max Elixer.
(X Attack/Defend/Speed/Special are on this list even though they don't open the party screen directly - maybe they were intended to at some point?)

This is interesting, but I wonder if they're in there because they were once meant to open the party submenu out of battle (for use like the vitamins instead of as a temporary boost?), if this is an error, or if there's a technical reason for them to be in this list? (talk) 02:43, 10 June 2014 (EDT)

There are unused code and sounds, right?

Hi, i'm new here and i was wondering if should be added "This game has unused code." and "This game has unused sounds." in the page's bob, since there are unused game mechanics, unused functions and unused pokémon cries (i'm talking about MissingNo). Is it ok? --Crocodile91 (talk) 15:33, 23 June 2014 (EDT)

I added the code tag, but I'd rather not add the sound tag unless someone can confirm that the unused cries are actually unique, unused data and not just a result of feeding the game invalid values. --BMF54123 (talk) 15:45, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
If I am correct, the unused cries are similar to regular ones, but with different effects applied. The game only has a few different samples, and all cries are like this, so they are distinct cries. It's iffy, but I think it is valid. Pokechu22 (talk) 16:47, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
They're not "valid" if they're a result of reading random values for the cry parameters. That's what I'm asking here. --BMF54123 (talk) 16:48, 23 June 2014 (EDT)
Most missingno have a blanked out cry. These ones don't, and it appears to not be random. In the disassembly, file cries.asm includes the cries. Most Missingno are like this: db $00, $00, $00; MissingNo.. The special ones are like this: db $0F, $40, $80; MissingNo. (that's hex 89). It doesn't look like random data. --Pokechu22 (talk) 17:10, 23 June 2014 (EDT)

Areas unseen in regular gameplay?

This and this. Both of these areas are in Route 2, between the gatehouses to Viridian Forest and only accessible by using a walk through walls code. The first one is below the north exit, and can be partially be seen in normal gameplay if you stand directly to the right of the gatehouse, but the ledges and grass cannot be seen. The grass works and as far as I tested, has the same encounters as the regular grass in Route 2. The second one is directly above the other gatehouse and can't be seen in regular gameplay at all. The bush can be cut down but there's nothing behind it. Would these two be considered worthy of adding to the page? --Cronus (talk) 15:57, 11 August 2014 (EDT)

Probably those are artifacts of the way the maps are rendered, and/or extra bits drawn just so that you can see the "next area" while walking by. i.e. if that first one wasn't there, you wouldn't be able to see the area to the south of the building when entering it from the north. Maybe they did copy a few more tiles than they needed, though. (talk) 02:55, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

Even more unused Japanese text

From here:

I did a cursory search for "どこかで じめんがもりあがった!" ("Ground rose up somewhere!") and found something on a Japanese blog about some more unused text, apparently for when the rival defeats the player. In the final game, the rival only gives his victory speech if you lose in the first battle.
Does anybody know anything more about this?
The below isn't the exact text (it looks like the user annotated it with what he/she thought corresponded to each route)
(22番道路最初)なんだ? /ポケモン 2ひきも/もってるの なぜか だって? /おまえも/つかまえれば いい じゃん!
(ハナダ)なんたって! /おれは てんさい だからよ!
(サントアンヌ)[名前]……! /ふなよい してるのか! /もっと からだ/きたえた ほうが いいぜ!
(ポケモンタワー)あーあ……! /ほんとに くたばっちまったぞ! /よわいなー! /もっと ちゃんと そだてて やれよ
(シルフ)おまえなあ……/こんな うでまえじゃ/まだまだ……/いちにんまえ とは いえないぜ
(22番道路最後)ひゃははッ[名前]ー! /それで がんばってるのかよ! /おれの さいのうに くらべりゃ/[名前]は まだまだ だな! /もっと れんしゅう こいよ! /あははーッ!
(セキエイ)はーはッ! /かった! かった! かった! /[名前]に まける ような/おれさま では なーい! /ま! <ポケモン>の/てんさい [ライバル名]さま あいてに/ここまで よく がんばった! /ほめて つかわす! /はーッ! はーはッはッ!
Edit: Very recent translation, posted 5 months ago. There is also seasick text in the English Red/Blue, but I think it was used?
"(Route 22 first) What’s that? You want to know why I have two Pokémon? You should go catch some for yourself too!
(Cerulean) Of course! I’m a genius!
(S.S. Anne) [PLAYER]……! What are you sea sick? You should build yourself up more!
(Pokémon Tower) Oh man……! You seriously lost! How weak! You should raise your Pokémon more
(Silph) Man you……with that kind of skills……you can’t call yourself the best
(Route 22 last) Hyahaha [PLAYER]! Is that all you’ve got? Compared to my skills you still have a lot to learn [PLAYER]! Go practice more! Ahahaa!
(Indigo League) Hahaa! I won! I won! I won! I’m not the type to lose against [PLAYER]! Well I guess I should compliment you for faring this far against [POKéMON] and the great [RIVAL]’s genius! Haa! Haahaha!"

I think most of this is not already documented? (talk) 02:57, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

Yes, seems not. I didn't originally know this, but at least one of the texts (being defeated in the final battle) has been officially translated for the English version of Red/Blue. All of the official translations need to be collected from the Red text dump. See this section. Torchickens (talk) 22:01, 17 August 2014 (EDT)
Edit: Here are all but one of the official localized versions, in the same order as the unofficial translations. One may be missing from the text dump because I couldn't find Blue's S.S. Anne encounter text in it, and the other loss texts follow the encounter texts.
SONY: What?
Why do I have 2
POKéMON?

You should catch
some more too!

Heh!
You're no match
for my genius!

-May be missing from text dump as it omits S.S. Anne Blue text-

SONY: Well,
look at all your
wimpy POKéMON!
Toughen them up a
bit more!

SONY: How can
I put this?
You're not good
enough to play
with us big boys!

SONY: Hahaha!
NINTEN! That's
your best? You're
nowhere near as
good as me, pal!
Go train some
more! You loser!

Hahaha!
I won, I won!
I'm too good for
you, NINTEN!
You did well to
even reach me,
SONY, the
POKéMON genius!
Nice try, loser!
Hahaha!
Torchickens (talk) 22:24, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

Debug Mode

As described in the edit I just made, there's a debug flag which skips the new game intro (including player naming, so player/rival have default names NINTEN and SONY), starts the player outside the house instead of inside, and allows preventing wild encounters by holding B.

Some further investigation would be great here:

  • Is this flag present in Yellow and in other language versions? Was it perhaps kept in Gold/Silver as well?
  • Is there any code left that sets this flag? And/or can we make a Gameshark or Game Genie code that sets it without forcing all the other, unrelated flags in that byte?
    • Maybe by changing what the value is initialized to?
  • While testing, I also noticed that if I held B while the rival walked up to me in Oak's lab, and released it once the battle menu opened, his attacks missed or failed very often. Is this a feature, or a fluke?
  • Any other effects? (talk) 21:14, 23 September 2014 (EDT)

Red & Green remnants

Where should they be covered? On the article, on the version differences sub-page, or somewhere else? I personally think that they don't fall under 'version differences' if they still remain in the English versions. Version differences and Japanese version remnants are two different things. Torchickens (talk) 16:05, 24 September 2014 (EDT)

They aren't version differences. They are in both versions. Move them back. -- Sheeza (talk) 17:34, 24 September 2014 (EDT)

Merging Yellow with Red and Blue

I'm leaning more toward 'no'. Similar logic can apply to Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, etc. There's enough differences to distinguish these games from the two main ones for each generation. Plus, this page is already gigantic enough as is, but that's beside the point.--From: divingkataetheweirdo (talk) 01:55, 10 November 2015 (EST)

I don't think we ever came to a consensus on this, did we? Because someone just merged them. And I agree that Yellow (and by extension, Crystal/Emerald/Platinum) should have its' own page. --Luigi-San (talk) 18:07, 2 January 2016 (EST)
I feel like Yellow vs Red/Blue/Green should be treated the same as Super Mario All-Stars vs the original NES games. It's not the same game; it's a new, updated version. (talk) 21:15, 2 January 2016 (EST)
The same logic could apply for Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, etc. With Super Mario All-Stars, there was only a minor change to include an extra game (and maybe a couple of bugfixes). Whereas here, Yellow added many new features on top of Red and Blue (including Pikachu's voice clips). --From: divingkataetheweirdo (talk) 21:22, 2 January 2016 (EST)

Struggle

Looking at the pokered disassembly (though I would probably have to look harder), it appears that Struggle is stored as a normal 10 PP move, but the engine will never reduce its PP. This contradicts what the article says, claiming it has 1 PP. I don't see any code there related to PP loading that suggests "if it's Struggle, do it differently". --FSX (talk) 09:28, 9 December 2015 (EST)

Title bob thing

The title screens on the page are now squished to a lower resolution.Just a heads upFrozenburg (talk) 17:57, 2 January 2016 (EST)

Unused pokemon cries?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gOVFapS9Mw this video claims there are unused cries and even plays them thing is are they really unused--Mrkoolnerd (talk) 01:38, 25 January 2016 (EST)

The nine unique Missingno. cries are believed to be unused data because they are hardcoded in the ROM with other Pokémon cries. Eight .ogg files of the cries (the one for 0x45 which is identical to Zubat excluded) are contained in this section of the article. Torchickens (talk) 21:46, 29 January 2016 (EST)

Ancient Japanese hacking site

This is rather interesting. It mostly focuses on the Gen 1 games (it's that old - 1997/8), but does have a bit of info on Gen 2. It includes stuff like a check mode, giant list of bugs and someone's perspective into the showing of Gold/Silver at SpaceWorld '97. --From: divingkataetheweirdo (talk) 21:40, 8 April 2016 (EDT)

Making a necrobump (revert if not needed), but ポケモン研究所 (Pokémon Lab) went down since your comment. So anyone who wants to check it might have to view an archived version. To save time for anyone who may still be interested, this is the latest I could find [1] but I haven't checked other archive sites and at least the front page image is no longer backed up on that link (but I believe it was just cute art of Pikachu). While I can't remember if it had any unused details we don't have, I used to find it useful for some of their glitches too (though the ones I remember were of the sub-glitch kind; not base glitches unless there are a few base glitches covered too), and also I remember seeing some information about the data structures of trainer flags, and the Pikachu's Beach routines in Japanese versions somewhere (it may have been on that site or one of the others like Kattempla, another old site). Torchickens (talk) 01:22, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Stuff to Add

--GlitterBerri (talk) 23:30, 22 May 2016 (EDT)

[CHILD FRIENDLY ALERT] Anyone could be reading this

Note: Like the Final Fantasy series, when it comes to localization, the Pokémon games have seen some shit. --Cammy26 (talk) 15:42, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

Yes, that for sure needs an edit. It's not expected to see no young children come to this page and see that word, and consequently, get punished because of us. --Professor64 (talk) 09:32, 12 October 2016 (EDT)

Unused song is partially recycled in Gold/Silver.

The unused and incomplete song features a segment that sounds nearly identical to part of the end theme of Gold/Silver. See 30 seconds in: [2] --Wyatt8740 (talk) 17:07, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

I'm sorry, but they sound nothing alike to me... And it seems like the ending song was composed by Go Ichinose and not Masuda, like the unused song in Red/Blue decisively was. source -Sanky-sig.gif Sanky ~ talk 17:45, 21 September 2016 (EDT)

Transform

There's a bit of (technically) unused behavior regarding the move Transform. Basically, any Pokemon you catch who is under the effects of Transform is regarded as Ditto. It's fine; that would make sense if Ditto were the only wild Pokemon that could use Transform, and in practice, this is true.

However, there's a lil' guy called Mew that can also be encountered (obviously not legitimately), and learns Transform at level 10. You'll have to find some way to raise the opponent's Attack stat to get it that high using the Ditto glitch, but if you can make it there, you can see this bit of unused behavior in action.

So would this be considered a bug, or unused behavior? It also seems this behavior was removed in Ruby and Sapphire, meaning it was still in the second-generation games. To prove that, I'd have to cheat, unfortunately. --DarkShinyLugia (talk) 10:10, 11 December 2016 (EST)

Proof for the upbeat unused song being a theme for trading?

I've seen this claim thrown around, but I'm having trouble verifying it, and the article linked in that section as a source has an offhand remark about it being a trading theme, but it's in the comments. Can someone link me to the evidence that this was actually the case and not just speculation?

Unused song restoration/trivia

Proposing a different restoration, will upload to TCRF when appropriate: https://vocaroo.com/7nO8Do0PmYL

I believe this to be the "intended" version of the song.

This song is known as muskoukan, which in source/MUSHEAD.DMG, its headers are placed after the "follow-me" song (called Autowalk). Unusually, the song is split into two headers, each pointing at its own channel data.

The byte that begins a sound header in the Pokémon games encodes how many channels are there and what channel should apply for the two-byte pointer that follows. For example, for music that uses 4 channels, that byte is 0xC0. Note that it uses zero-index here, which means an amount of 1 is encoded as 0. Bits 6-7 encode the number of channels (in this case %11, 3 decimal ~ 4 channels), while bits 0-1 encode which channel does the following pointer belong to (in this case %00, 0 decimal ~ channel 1).

In the case of both Koukan headers, it is 0x02. In this case, bits 6-7 read %00 (0 decimal) for 1 channel, while bits 0-1 read %10 (2 decimal) for channel 3 (wavetable channel).

The data itself is present in the retail build, so we can use audio/music/unusedsong.asm from the *pokered* disassembly to help explain things. Looking at the channel data, we can observe:

  1. Both channel data has a tempo 144 command listed, which should only be necessary on the first channel. However, because the data belongs to two separate headers, the tempo must be defined separately as well.
  2. Both channel data lists the command note_type 12, 1, 0. In the context of channels 1 and 2 (square wave channels), this command doesn't make much sense: it specifies a note type of length 12, volume 1 and 0 fade. A volume of 1 here is the lowest possible volume, and likely the reason why the "damaged" version sounds really quiet. On the other hand, in the context of channel 3, this command specifies a note type of length 12, volume 1, and wave 0. Here, a volume of 1 encodes the highest possible volume for the wave channel.
  3. There are no "duty cycle" commands or anything else that would make sense for a square wave channel. This is despite the data itself being changed significantly from it's source file, KOUKAN.MUS, where the restored version currently on the page comes from. It assigns both channel data to channels 2 and 3, while channels 1 and 4 are all rests. The fact that there are two headers and both channel data are meant for the wavetable channel may have been the reason why it was said that the unused song needed two GameBoys.
  4. The notes *may* have been pitched one octave too high. The other unused R/G/B songs that were discovered in the G/S source but were unused seem to have also been pitched too high, if the restorations tell us anything. This could either be as a result of engine changes, or the macros / conversion tooling itself changing.


Also some additional trivia: in the G/S sources, this song is present under mons2/SOURCE/EFFDATA/M_TRADE.DAT. It's the source version, converted into the G/S/C sound commands.

Zumi (talk) 07:21, 17 May 2020 (UTC)