Please consider supporting The Cutting Room Floor on Patreon. Thanks for all your support!

Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Genesis)

From The Cutting Room Floor
Jump to: navigation, search

Hidden rings

Aquatic Ruins act 2:

Final Beta 4
Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_000.png Sonic_The_Hedgehog_2_(Beta_4_-_Sep_18,_1992,_16_000.png

Placed over the a pillar rings in Final Version. The two rings were possible to grab the Beta 4 version

Casino Night Zone act 2:

Final Final
Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_001.png {{{right}}}

17 rings are lost early in the zone at the top. No platform exists to get there.

Mystic Cave Zone act 2:

Final Simon Wai Prototype
Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_004.pngSonic_the_Hedgehog_2_003.png Looks like it was destined to have some platforms.

Using swap B scroll Layer emulator, you can see more missing rings.

Oil Ocean Zone act 2:

Final Simon Wai Prototype
Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_005.pngSonic_the_Hedgehog_2_006.pngSonic_the_Hedgehog_2_008.png Sonic_The_Hedgehog_2_(WaiProto)_003.pngSonic_The_Hedgehog_2_(WaiProto)_004.pngSonic_The_Hedgehog_2_(WaiProto)_005.png

Metropolis Zone act 2:

Final Simon Wai Prototype
Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_009.png Sonic_The_Hedgehog_2_(WaiProto)_006.png

--Porcino (talk) 12:05, 25 December 2013 (EST)

These can be added to a Bugs page when we get better screenshots. --BMF54123 (talk) 05:22, 26 December 2013 (EST)
If this is to be counted as a Bug, what of other similar instances of unreachable collectables I've seen in the Wiki in the past, such as 'Lost Coins' in Super Mario 64's page? Should that be in a Bug page too? I feel like these Lost Rings can stay if the Lost Coins have already stood, provided we get better screenshots of course. Chicobo329 (talk) 06:31, 26 December 2013 (EST)
Why bugs? The line that splits "code oversight" and "level design oversight" is very blurry, but I never saw anybody that called misplaced items "bugs" before. I thought the bug pages were only to help list bugs that could be used to access hidden content, and not just a general compilation of oversights. Not to mention that the inaccessibility of these rings is not just trivial: Sonic game runners -- The Sonic Center -- sometimes do ring runs on Sonic 2 levels. Knowing about the existence of these rings can help them (or at least the newcomers) understand why they can't get a perfect on some levels despite looking like they got every ring. I'll take some in-game shots now, but I would like more debate over the bug page suggestion. {EspyoT} 08:06, 26 December 2013 (EST)
I would agree with this sentiment here. An oversight is way different from a bug; these rings being unobtainable, much less being unseen without any sort of tools makes them by definition unused content. Isn't that what this site is about? Chicobo329 (talk) 15:23, 26 December 2013 (EST)
The Bugs: namespace was created so we have a place to put ALL bugs and oversights, not just ones that grant access to unused content. Sorry if this wasn't clear. We have yet to make an official set of rules and guidelines for this.
Also, I don't see why level design oversights can't be classified as "bugs". They're unintentional mistakes that cause unintended/undesirable effects (in this case, you can't get a PERFECT bonus in the affected levels). --BMF54123 (talk) 15:26, 26 December 2013 (EST)

The rings are not bug. They exist this Simon Wai prototype. Because of this error is impossible to get a perfect bonus. I'll put the images side by side. --Porcino (talk) 15:47, 26 December 2013 (EST)

Level design flaws are usually oversights because they rest on the fault of the level designer who may have overlooked something, rather than a computer bug which is an unintended consequence from a faulty code or programming error. These level design flaws (not specifically just this case) may even be the result of a prior level design layout that had been used in past builds that they just forgot to remove later on. There may be instances of level design being affected by bad coding which could be a bug, like say a game with randomly generated layouts which you could count as a bug for your section. But in this case, these rings look like an oversight that Sega forgot to report and remove.Chicobo329 (talk) 15:52, 26 December 2013 (EST)
I don't really care if they're not "bugs" in the strictest Wikipedia sense of the word. Besides, I'd rather not rename the namespace BugsAndOversights. --BMF54123 (talk) 15:56, 26 December 2013 (EST)
But you should care because this would be an important re-classification of many bits of information on the Wiki! If you want oversights that aren't the result of bugs on your Bugs section, then it would be best to rename it Bugs and Oversights or something else to this effect. Otherwise if it's just Bugs, then just bugs would be appropriate for it. Chicobo329 (talk) 16:00, 26 December 2013 (EST)

Scrapped Zone Remains

It seems to me we're making a lot of silly assumptions as to what zones these were supposed to be based on garbled/nonexistent data. Seriously, Dust Hill Zone? Don't we basically have zero evidence that that was ever actually implemented, beyond a well-known mockup screenshot and an entry in a level select screen? Can we maybe tone down the speculation a bit? --BMF54123 (talk) 00:59, 6 May 2014 (EDT)

At least rename Dust Hill to Desert and Genocide City to Cyber City. Those are the actual names. --Cdic-sig.png ( Cdudeiscool | contribs ) 17:10, 21 January 2015 (EST)
Uh, no? --BMF54123 (talk) 21:45, 21 January 2015 (EST)

Turtle Sprite

The turtle sprite can actually be seen in game without debug mode (albeit rather briefly). I was watching a speed run of Sonic 2 and I noticed that he hit the badniks in Sky Chase and the turtle animal actually bounced around on the top of the Wing Fortress (and showed the sprite in question) as it was passing by.

Link to video at proper time: https://youtu.be/NIpgtzarJHA?t=31m34s

I don't know if this warrants removing the turtle sprite from the main page since technically you can see it in game, but I thought I'd run it by here first. DarkLeach7 (talk) 12:53, 23 September 2016 (PDT)

you're right I'll miss it when it is removed. : ) --Porcino (talk) 21:00, 23 September 2016 (EDT)

Collecting some inaccessible rings

A 'Ring Attack' TAS has been recently published using Knuckles in Sonic 2 which actually collects many (but not all) of these inaccessible rings. You can find the TAS and the author comments here: http://tasvideos.org/5385S.html The author and comments deduce that even with Knuckles' additional mobility options and (humanly possible) zip/speed glitches, some rings are still absolutely unobtainable:

  • The rings in the walls in Casino Night Zone Act 2
  • A ring inside the pillar in Aquatic Ruin Zone Act 2

I have a couple questions before I actually make the edits on the page though.

  • Is it worth noting that Knuckles can collect some of these rings in the vanilla Sonic 2 page?
  • If it is worth noting, should these be added as comments on the side to the table, rather than outright removing some of these entries from the table? (for example, Knuckles can glide to reach the cluster of 14 rings in Casino Night Zone Act 2, should I remove the entry outright or just say in the comments that only Knuckles can get these?) Chicobo329 (talk) 14:42, 18 February 2017 (EST)

Knuckles in Sonic 2 Level Select/Debug Mode

Shall I put information regarding the Level Select and Debug Mode for Knuckles in Sonic 2 on this page, or should it have its own page similar to Sonic 3 & Knuckles? --BSonirachi (talk) 10:55, 16 April 2017 (EDT)

Unused "cheat" code?

On the title screen press Up, Down, Down, Down, Up a ring sound will be heard.
In the option screen, listen to the songs 01,01,02,04 It will play the Oil Ocean Zone music permanently.
Do these codes have any use? --Porcino (talk) 06:01, 8 June 2017 (EDT)

I think the second one gives you a bunch of continues, but they used the wrong sound code for the confirmation sound, which causes the sound driver to go unresponsive for some reason. --BMF54123 (talk) 06:22, 8 June 2017 (EDT)
The first one is the region swap code: it removes the trademark symbols on the SEGA and title screens, and changes every instance of "Tails" to Miles. --Neo (talk) 06:41, 8 June 2017 (EDT)
This is interesting, very much. :O --Porcino (talk) 08:16, 8 June 2017
"Up, Down, Down, Down, Up" at the Title Screen changes every reference in the game of "TAILS" to "MILES" in the World releases and vice versa in the Japanese release. "01, 01, 02, 04" in the Sound Test (but only the Sound Test in the Options Menu; not effective in the one found within the Level Select screen) will start the player with fourteen Continues. The music track from Oil Ocean Zone also continually plays, even silencing all other sound in the game due to a bug.(EDT)

Wing Fortress Zone Laser

In my opinion it is not a laser but the fire of the ship's turbines. This fits perfectly even if it sounds weird.
S2 WF Fire object.png --Porcino (talk) 21:52, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

That fits perfectly, it makes much more sense than a random laser that comes out from nowhere. --Chainspike (talk) 04:47, 23 June 2017 (EST)

Unused object mappings

Mappings are information that arranges art into the pieces and color pallet assignment. Sonic 2 seems to have 9 unused ones. In the current community disassembly there are located under mappings\misc named "Strange unused mappings". Is there any good discussion of these out there, and what's strange about them? ``Heran Bago (talk) 19:29, 3 July 2017 (EDT)

"Unused 2x2 Tiles"

I realize these aren't "official" names, but generally within the Sonic hacking community, we refer to the pieces that make up the level as tiles, blocks, and chunks (in order of increasing size), and with their sizes in pixels, ie 8x8, 16x16, and 128x128 or 256x256. Also, is it really necessary to split the blocks into high and low portions? If so, why not do the same for the chunks as well? Maybe we could include the collision paths while we're at it? MainMemory (talk) 21:22, 23 July 2017 (EDT)

I think 2x2 tiles are easier to understand because the mapping IDs select 4 tiles in VRAM generating a 2x2 tile :-/
I tried to add smaller pieces like 1x1, but the graphics used in level design are mixed with object graphics so it's hard to understand which piece means anything and it's very small. Either way, 2x2 tiles are referenced and are easier to filter them to find out if they are used or not. --Porcino (talk) 22:46, 23 July 2017 (EDT)

Mega Collection Plus Version

There's another revision of this on Mega Collection Plus. I know that it fixes the bug with the 14-continues cheat, and there may be other fixes too (because I don't know exactly what was fixed I didn't edit this in myself). RibShark (talk) 20:40, 26 December 2017 (EST)

At first I had no idea what this was talking about, but it's right: even the original Mega Collection had a bugfixed version of Sonic 2 (REV01) that fixes the continues cheat bug. I've compared the ROMs, and it's the only edit made to the game. There aren't any other fixes in there. Toasty.C (talk) 20:00, 6 May 2018 (EDT)

Regarding the inability to spindash off the Tornado

I'm not sure that's a bug. In fact, I'm pretty sure being able to spindash off the Tornado was the real bug. Although, according to Sonic Retro, the buggality (I know that's not a real word, but how else am I supposed to say it?) is disputed amongst the people who discovered the bug/feature/whatever. Even then, wouldn't the inability to spindash off the Tornado in Rev. 02 be a bug-fix? I don't know, maybe this is me overlooking something. --That person who ALWAYS gets their changes undone (not anymore don't think) (talk) 17:34, 3 April 2018 (EDT)

I'm not sure whether being able to spin dash off the Tornado is intended or not. I haven't made sense of the object's code yet. Still, the "bugfix" is more than likely a bug itself. For one, it was reverted in Knuckles in Sonic 2 and the Sonic Jam port, which were both based on Rev. 02. Considering KiS2 came out before Sonic Classics/Compilation, and Jam came out after, there's even the possibility that the bug (along with the other two Rev. 02 exclusive bugs) was introduced in that version specifically.
Internally, it's not a very good bugfix - in fact, it's caused by the same types of changes to the code that introduced the Grabber/Silver Sonic and WFZ platform bugs, which were all to do with strange bitmasking. In Grabber/Silver Sonic's case, the bitfield containing the object's X/Y-flip bits was masked with a different value in Rev. 02, which stopped the X-flip from being inherited. Likewise, the WFZ platform bug was to do with the bitfield containing Sonic's 'is currently stood on an object' bit being masked with a different value that cleared his Y-flip bit instead, for absolutely no reason. Without that bit cleared, Sonic would just hover in the air. As for the Tornado, the bitfield containing its 'Sonic is currently stood on this' flag was masked with a value that changed the X-flip bit instead.
There was no reason for any of these changes, and the fact that one of them was able to mask a 'bug' seems like a coincidence to me more than anything. If anything, they come off as some kind of bizarre build error. Why on earth would a handful of otherwise-unrelated bitmasks change, with the only thing in common being they're changed to something involving the X and Y flip flags? Between S1's and S2's revisions, this is the only one to have changes this strange. There are plenty of 'proper' ways to stop Sonic from spin dashing off the Tornado, and Rev. 02's is the least proper. Toasty.C (talk) 06:30, 5 April 2018 (EDT)

Knuckles in Sonic 2 Prototypes

There are some prototypes of Knuckles in Sonic 2. Is it okay to put a separate page for these prototypes? --Tresdor34 (talk) 15:25, 17 June 2018 (EDT)

I guess, but where would Knuckles in Sonic 2 go? --From: divingkataetheweirdo (talk) 19:58, 17 June 2018 (EDT)
The prototypes could go to Sonic & Knuckles prototypes page. -Tresdor34 (talk)

On Rev. 02's added bugs and recent research

The current article states that Revision 02 is the version first released in Sonic Classics, and that it has new bugs that were fixed in later versions afterwards. However, relatively recent research by Clownacy on Sonic Retro (from November) highly suggests that those bugs are not inherent to Rev. 02, and that those bugs are specific to Sonic Classics. It might be a good idea to make edits to the page to reflect this, though I'd rather bring it up in here first.

Here's the summary of that:

  • Rev. 02 is the version that Sonic Classics, Knuckles in Sonic 2, and Sonic Jam's Sonic 2 are based on.
  • Sonic Classic's version was released in 1995 and has the new bugs. This is the best-known version of Rev. 02.
  • Sonic & Knuckles (with KiS2) was released in late 1994. This is missing the new bugs, and has a specific fix for the EHZ scrolling bug (only fixed in this version).
  • Sonic Jam was released in 1997, and its version of Sonic 2 based on Rev. 02. This version is once again missing the added bugs from Classics.
  • However, in that post, the author points out that there's another version based on Rev. 02: the Mega Play version of the game.
  • This version is also the only version of Rev. 02 to have the ROM header, and the header proves that it is indeed Rev. 02.
  • This version was released in 1993, a year before S&K and two years before Sonic Classics, meaning it's the oldest known version.
  • Since only one specific later version of Rev. 02 has the added bugs, it seems very much more likely that it was simply Sonic Classics that added the bugs, rather than the bugs being inherent to Rev. 02 and being fixed in later released.

The actual post goes a lot more in-depth than this, and even has some details on the bugs themselves, but I think this works as a decent summary. Should the page be corrected based on this info? I'm putting this in here in case anyone has any thoughts on the matter. Also, correct me if I'm wrong or misinterpreting the original post, though I think I've got it mostly correct.

--ShiningWing (talk) 17:57, 2 April 2019 (EDT)

An interesting discovery

A man who claims to have worked on the Sega Genesis/MegaDrive has shown some early music for Sonic 2 on their YouTube channel, along with some music made for Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. Their name is David Javelosa; they're a teacher whose student told them to upload their early music to YouTube.

The following is their release of the song(s?) onto YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJLkkOxRP8Y

He also has a website.

http://javelosa.com/

The question is, where should this be included? Rather, should it be included? The man's on Sonic Retro, too. What do you guys think? --kaidigem (talk) 21:53, 16 May 2019 (EDT)