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Talk:Super Mario 3D Land

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Unused Sound Effect

Can you explain how you managed to find this song? Considering the 3DS ROMs are completely encrypted? --AquaBat (talk) 21:36, 3 February 2014 (EST)

What I did was use a fcram dump. Since the 3DS has such poor memory management, half the game code (It gets copied to the RAM in a decrypted form) is still in the RAM even if the game is closed. I can further prove this with an Ocarina of Time 3D text dump and a rip of SML3D's title screen theme using the same method. --Team Fail (talk) 21:56, 3 February 2014 (EST)
Is there anything else you're able to dump? This is really cool. --Lemurboy12 (talk) 10:30, 4 February 2014 (EST)
Unfortunately, no other methods have been reverse-engineered at this point. I could try, but I'm not making any promises. I do know that SML3D has NARC files. I'll have to peel those open and investigate those. --Team Fail (talk) 11:10, 4 February 2014 (EST)
Three questions:
  • Are they the same sort of NARCS used in DS games?
  • Can you look through other games?
  • Could you give me some files to look though (such as sounds, models). --Hiccup (talk) 11:22, 4 February 2014 (EST)
You can unpack these with Tinke. A lot of them have the same type of structure as Wii .arc files. .bcmdl is obviously models. This is only half the game, right? Lemurboy12 (talk) 10:39, 5 February 2014 (EST)
I don't know how much of the ROM this consists of (It could be very little, or a large majority). I won't know until it gets decrypted, but having these decrypted files is definitely a start. --Team Fail (talk) 13:22, 5 February 2014 (EST)
Speaking for myself, I'm more than happy with this "start". This may be the only way to probe around files for a long time. I'm not holding my breath on the ROMs getting decrypted anytime soon. --Cuber456 (talk) 22:20, 7 February 2014 (EST)
I opened the NARCS in MKDS Course Modifier and some of them are mentioning stuff about stage data and audio but they come in a format known as .byml does anyone know what this format is? --TheRubberFruitFace (talk) 01:34, 9 March 2014 (EST)

Citation Needed

"featuring a reference to The Legend of Zelda."— The preceding unsigned comment was added by PharosAM (talk • contribs)

I think the person who made that edit has confused this game with its sequel, Super Mario 3D World, which features a Zelda-themed bonus room featuring a Link sprite and the classic item jingle. - Burb
Nope, there's a big Zelda reference in the game. In one of the desert levels, there's a hidden part with four torches and one isn't lit. If you throw a fireball at it, the sound it makes when you find a secret in Zelda will play and a gate will open with a star coin in it. Lemurboy12 (talk) 13:56, 6 February 2014 (EST)
Also including an entire level is in homage to The Legend of Zelda. -Einstein95 (talk) 14:19, 6 February 2014 (EST)
All this said, I think the reference is trivial at best, and not unused; I don't see how it merits a place in the game's description. I'll remove it for now unless something more is made of it. WhoIAm (talk) 19:22, 7 February 2014 (EST)

Trailer?

The page suggests that the Yoshi sound was used in one of the prototype trailers, but I can't find it. It would be nice to link it for the page for other people, too. --989Nintendo898 (talk) 07:23, 7 February 2014 (EST)

I finally found it. It wasn't part of a trailer like I thought; rather it was a guy who recorded himself playing the Gamescom 2011 demo. I've added the video to the page. WhoIAm (talk) 19:29, 30 May 2015 (EDT)

Interesting files to look at

See the notes page for updated list. Thanks to Team Fail and einstein. --Hiccup (talk) 04:19, 9 February 2014 (EST)

I searched through the files with grep and found quite a few with debug, test, e3, and temp. More info here. --AttackedbyGlitch (talk) 21:41, 7 February 2014 (EST)
Some definite files of interest here. The only thing that sucks is that, besides text files, we really don't have the tools to probe these files as of yet. I have been looking at what file types we have here, just out of curiosity. The only files that we *might* (and that is a huge might) be able to check out are the KCL files. I tried to open them myself but failed so either they aren't "regular" KCL files or I just suck and I simply failed to open them using available tools (entirely possible). The only other thing I have to say is that the BCMDL files are most likely model files in the same vein that BMD/BDL files were for the NGC/Wii. Perhaps I'm stating the obvious but it is worth stating. --Cuber456 (talk) 22:20, 7 February 2014 (EST)
Oh, I should mention that smealum's working on a CGFX->OBJ converter. It should be noted that CGFX (what the BCMDL files actually are) is the new BMD, being used in Pokemon X/Y as well as SM3DL. -Einstein95 (talk) 22:24, 7 February 2014 (EST)
Do the CGFX files really need to be converted? Apparently a few programs, one major one in particular, can open and edit CGFX files. --AquaBat (talk) 23:49, 7 February 2014 (EST)
Although I'd like to see such a program, I believe that they're actually for CgFX files, which is a different (non-proprietary) format. -Einstein95 (talk) 23:55, 7 February 2014 (EST)
There appears to be editors for some 3DS file formats
How do I go about using the fcram dumper? --HellFire2345 (talk) 11:20, 8 February 2014 (EST)
It's a bit cryptic but, from reading multiple pages from the thread on gbatemp, I think you need a gateway card for your 3DS. Not only that but your 3DS needs have a firmware below 4.5 or around there. Check out that link and read those pages. --Cuber456 (talk) 12:22, 8 February 2014 (EST)
Well I guess that's completely out of the question for me. --HellFire2345 (talk) 12:24, 8 February 2014 (EST)
Does anyone know the encryption key for SM3DL? I need it for 3DSExplorer. --Yoshimaster96 (talk) 17:09, 8 July 2014 (EDT)

smea's cgfx2obj

How would I use the cgfx2obj python script then, atleast? there's a bunch of errors and I have installed PIL. --HellFire2345 (talk) 12:24, 8 February 2014 (EST)

Yeah, it appears only a few individuals will be able to dump decrypted ROM data with specifics like those. Nintendo really has the 3DS on lockdown. Anyway, I tried cgfx2obj and *mostly* got errors as well. I tried using it with Python 2.7 and the appropriate PIL package. The only time that I didn't get any errors was when I tried to convert the bigger files (I think one of them was called "mario animation" or there about. It was like a 2.15 MB file.). Even though it didn't error out, it didn't produce an output file anywhere either. It could just be me doing something stupid but it can be tough to tell with these things. --Cuber456 (talk) 12:40, 8 February 2014 (EST)
Try tweeting smea, he responded the first time I did. --Hiccup (talk) 13:07, 8 February 2014 (EST).
There's no file output code in the script; i.e it's not finished. Skawo (talk) 17:07, 8 February 2014 (EST)
He has shown ripped models from Pokemon, so he must have created one, I guess somebody should nag him into updating the github thing. --Hiccup (talk) 04:06, 9 February 2014 (EST)
I think Gericom is working on getting Mario Kart DS Course Modifier to read 3DS models, so there's that going, which is nice. Hopefully he'll release a prototype soon. He has managed to rip and convert textures so far, though. --Team Fail (talk) 11:42, 19 February 2014 (EST)

Prototype

Prototype info (numbers and stuff on the cart and in the menu). --Hiccup (talk) 13:00, 24 March 2014 (EDT)

I remember seeing that video (I chatted with [nuked] often on Skype), and I do remember that the music for the boss battle near the end was completely different. If we can get a rom dump of the E3 demo, that'd be a difference that could be listed. If someone has a mirror of that video, as well, that'd be awesome. --Team Fail (talk) 16:24, 8 February 2014 (EST)
Actually, after reading the Mario Wiki, I found this, and if my memory is good, that is the song I heard. Said song can be heard here.--Team Fail (talk) 16:42, 8 February 2014 (EST)
The [nuked] channel replied to me saying this (who I am talking to is unknown):
[nuked] knew who it was, but [they] never even told us who it was.
[they] promised that person to keep them secret.

Even if there was a ROM copy you were unable to play it.
It's an unsigned game like any other game that runs from a development cartridge.
Nintendo 3DS development cartridges can only be ran on development hardware.

--Hiccup (talk) 05:51, 9 February 2014 (EST)

[nuked] (aka [nuked]) owns it, all info I could find about it from talking to them is here: http://hiccup.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Undumped_Games. --Hiccup (talk) 11:51, 19 February 2014 (EST)
I did ask [nuked] if I could post about this, and they didn't object. If they have ignored replies to the converstation then it is their fault. I am happy for any information on ownership to be taken down (on anywhere), but not details about the prototype. Obviously it is up to the admins.--Hiccup (talk) 08:28, 23 March 2014 (EDT)
Then take down the people (user)names and the associated company names at least. Violating privacy is not the way you can punish people and companies altogether for not replying. What if they simply forgot? -theunknown
I have and I wasn't punishing anybody, and I admitted (not here) that I am at fault to a degree. --Hiccup (talk) 15:40, 2 July 2014 (EDT)

How are you guys ripping sounds and whatnot?

I think somebody mentions it above, but it's like reading a different language for me. Long story short, I am VERY, VERY interested in modding this game (I have wanted to mess with the files ever since the release). I would like to know (if you guys can describe it in a simpler way)... How did you rip the game's data? Has new hardware came out that I missed or something? It is very hard to keep up with this but I want to stay on top of this game in terms of modding. Thanks guys. :)

(FYI: I've been doing a lot of Super Mario Galaxy modding so I know SOMEWHAT about RARC filetypes and the like.)

--SMB124--

As mentioned through the thick text above, dumping data from a ROM seems to involve having a Gateway, or equivalent, flash card. The Gateway runs some type of program that dumps whatever is in the RAM. Along with that, you need a 3DS that has a very specific firmware (I think in the 4.0.0 range but I'm not sure, the details are above). Even if you are able to meet those strict requirements, there isn't much of a point to modding at the present time. We would be lucky to even open up most of the said files that we have dumped from the RAM. On top of that, modding files is pointless since, even if files could be properly modded, there is no way to recombine all the files to make a new ROM and run it. Disregarding the fact that what is dumped is possibly only a portion of the ROM, the dumped data is unencrypted and won't run on any standard 3DS because of that. So modding, the way I see it, is ways off. The more important thing to do right now would be to examine and document how file types of the game work. --Cuber456 (talk) 02:10, 24 February 2014 (EST)
Basically, one takes a dump of the game's ram and analyses it. You don't even need a GW3DS to do it, you just launch a different file using the profile exploit (That being an fcram dumper). The audio formats already have preliminary documentation, so all one needs to do is figure out the formats themselves and get them into a format that anyone can use. --Team Fail (talk) 23:46, 25 February 2014 (EST)
Welp I guess I wasn't completely right. I thought I had an idea as how it was done but I don't. Thanks for correcting me :P. I can agree with SMB124 that the process of dumping RAM is a little convoluted in the details above. Actually, I have a question for you Team Fail. I was reading up on the profile exploit you mentioned. It seems to involve "crashing" the 3DS. My question is what necessarily constitutes a useful crash? Does it simply involve the 3DS black-screening and being 100% unresponsive to button inputs or is there more to it than that? How does one run the fcram dumper after the crash?
--Cuber456 (talk) 02:17, 26 February 2014 (EST)
I think that smealum explains it best. -Einstein95 (talk) 02:29, 26 February 2014 (EST)
On a related note, can you try going through OOT3D's RAM/music dump? Because an article here says that "For that reason, at first I decided to spruce it up by arranging slightly more up-to-date music. But when I'd done about half, Kondo-san suddenly said, "Make sure you stay faithful to the Nintendo 64 sound." I wonder if it's still in the game? I wouldn't be suprised if it wasn't. Also, on a completely unrelated note, there's gonna be a LOT more HD OST rips coming for 3DS games. :) Robotortoise (talk) 14:51, 6 March 2014 (EST)
Apparently OoT3D uses a sequenced music format, unlike the streamed music that SM3DL uses. -Einstein95 (talk) 14:55, 6 March 2014 (EST)
That's what I assumed. Anywawys, I found a MIDI rip...sort of. http://hcs64.com/mboard/forum.php?showthread=22904&showpage=9 Robotortoise (talk) 15:02, 6 March 2014 (EST)

Magikoopa Laugh

Can we compare this to the Magikoopa's laugh in the Galaxy games? I suspect it may be a leftover. --AquaBat (talk) 09:41, 25 June 2014 (EDT)

Unused Music

I will all BCSTMs to OGG properly for TCRF (aka, not a mixture of vgmstream, foobar, audacity and clyp.it).

I have some questions (more will be added over time):


--Hiccup (talk) 07:09, 3 July 2014 (EDT)

Off the top of my head I think STM_BGM_DEMO01_B and STM_BGM_DEMO02_B are unused. Isn't STM_BGM_MANEC used in cosmic clone levels and STM_BGM_MANEC used after 100 seconds? STM_BGM_MUTEKISTAR seems like an extended version of starman. STM_BGM_RAREROOM is used in some levels like 2-3. STM_JG_KINO_GIFT_GOLD I think is unused but the name suggests it might have something to do with toad gifts. STM_BGM_ATHLETIC is the main theme, maybe it was originally the athletic theme. STM_BGM_SKYPANEL is probably a reference to 4-5, a level around at the time of the E3 demo. STM_BGM_TRUCK_A is the entry sound for the final castle and STM_BGM_TRUCK_B is the castle theme. The 'TRUCK' is probably a reference to the spine-coaster in the final castle. STM_BGM_POTER, only the first ~10 seconds are used. I didn't check the sound effects. I hope this helps a bit. -The Quirky Quark (talk) 22:01, 3 July 2014 (EDT)
DEMO01 and DEMO02 are used during the intro transition from cutscene to level select. DEMO05, MANEC, MANEC_FAST, and RAREROOM are all used. M64m (talk) 22:46, 3 July 2014 (EDT)
I'll summarise that then :
  • STM_BGM_MANEC - Used
  • STM_BGM_MANEC_FAST - Used
  • STM_BGM_MUTEKISTAR - at least Partly used
  • STM_BGM_RAREROOM - Used
  • STMDummy - Possibly used & Interesting filename
  • STM_JG_KINO_GIFT_SILVER - Used (for opening streetpass silver gifts)
  • STM_JG_KINO_GIFT_GOLD - Used (for opening streetpass gold gifts)
  • STM_BGM_DEMO01_B - Used
  • STM_BGM_DEMO02_B - Used
  • STM_BGM_DEMO03_A - Unused?
  • STM_BGM_DEMO03_B - Unused?
  • STM_BGM_DEMO04_A - Unused?
  • STM_BGM_DEMO04_B - Unused?
  • STM_BGM_DEMO05 - Used
  • STM_BGM_JG_GAME_OVER - Used
  • STM_BGM_ATHLETIC - Used & possibly Interesting filename
  • STM_BGM_SKYPANEL - Used & possibly Interesting filename (in relation to E3 prerelease?)
  • STM_BGM_TRUCK_A - Used & possibly Interesting filename
  • STM_BGM_TRUCK_B - Used & possibly Interesting filename
  • STM_BGM_POTER - Partly used (only the first ~10 seconds are used)
  • (Hiccup's SFX Foldr 1) - Unknown
--Hiccup (talk) 05:30, 4 July 2014 (EDT)

How Specific?

Some inconsistency between pages that I wanted to ask about. Random, I guess. Super Mario 3D Land was developed by EAD Tokyo and (then Brownie Brown, later 1-up Studio). However, the Super Mario Galaxy page just lists "Nintendo" as the developer. Do future pages need to be more specific or generic? -Jedivulcan (talk) 16:12, 17 August 2014 (EDT)

In my opinion they should be specific. I guess some pages were just not updated with the 'new' information. --Hiccup (talk) 17:00, 18 August 2014 (EDT)
In my opinion, I don't think we really need to list the specific development team within a company that made a game. --BMF54123 (talk) 17:40, 18 August 2014 (EDT)

Nintendo EAD Tokyo Group 2

Must the developer tag be so irritatingly long? It inflates the Bob so much that the text in the article is squeezed into tiny lines. Can't we just call them "Nintendo EAD Tokyo Group 2"? Note that above, BMF says that he believes we don't have to be this specific about the development group at all. --AquaBat (talk) 20:54, 19 November 2014 (EST)

Serious question, but why not just Nintendo EAD? We already have a category for EAD and the rest just seems to be space to take up space.--Sgv Sth (talk) 23:07, 19 November 2014 (EST)

Things not in the article

Not Reviewed

Currrently Rejected

Accepted

Used

--Hiccup (talk) 14:59, 21 November 2014 (EST)

Why don't you add them yourself. -Einstein95 (talk) 15:03, 21 November 2014 (EST)
I don't think it's necessary to add the dummy track, since it's just a copy of the invincibility song. -M64m (talk) 15:09, 21 November 2014 (EST)
A. I don't edit articles anymore...
B. I agree, but I'd like to point out a similar thing is mentioned on the SM3DW page. --Hiccup (talk) 15:32, 21 November 2014 (EST)
I don't believe it should be in that article either. -M64m (talk) 15:40, 21 November 2014 (EST)
What about the 'LC' font? 06:52, 22 November 2014 (EST)
Generally speaking, documenting debug fonts on the wiki's been quite inconsistent, depending on who creates the article, content unearthed and yada yada yada. It honestly depends on who you ask and whether the mods/the editor deems it significant enough to be featured, although I don't really think it should myself.
Crashandcortex (talk) 08:12, 22 November 2014 (EST)
Well, If I find anything else I will add it to the list. --Hiccup (talk) 08:41, 22 November 2014 (EST)
Actually, I think in this case the invincibility theme copy is justified, as it's a stream, rather than a sound effect as the original copy is. Same applies for SM3DW. Robotortoise (talk) 13:44, 22 November 2014 (EST)
It could definitely be noted on the pages, but I still don't think it warrants uploading a used song to the site. -M64m (talk) 13:53, 22 November 2014 (EST)
Well, I WOULD check if it was the same revision as the final, but I can't find the starman sfx....this applies to SM3DW as well....Robotortoise (talk) 14:16, 22 November 2014 (EST)
Huh? Doesn't SM3DL use sound/stream/STM_BGM_MUTEKISTAR.bcstm? (It doesn't seem to use the dummy stream because in the demo version, it is not present.) --Hiccup (talk) 15:46, 22 November 2014 (EST)
Oh. Maybe it DOES use a stream for SM3DL. My mistake.Robotortoise (talk) 19:03, 22 November 2014 (EST)
Regarding the images you just posted, those are both specular maps. They are what prevent the metallic highlights from showing over Bullet Bill's eyes and the dark creases in the brick block. The 3DS is advanced enough of a system to make use of them, and pretty much every game has them nowadays. --Peardian (talk) 18:46, 28 November 2014 (EST)
Thanks, I realised that after seeing it in some other models. --Hiccup (talk) 19:21, 28 November 2014 (EST)
That's not writing in the Bullet Bill texture. That part of the texture is used for Bullet Bill's arm/fist. -M64m (talk) 19:39, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Title Screen Music Variation?

There are two stereo versions of the title screen music.

There's two variations of most songs: Indoor variations and outdoor variations. How many of these stages actually use the indoor variations, though....? Robotortoise (talk) 14:22, 22 November 2014 (EST)

Where are these variations in the RomFS? Could you upload the rest of them (not on TCRF, as they may be used)? --Hiccup (talk) 15:46, 22 November 2014 (EST)
They're in the multi-layer bcstm files. Robotortoise (talk) 19:03, 22 November 2014 (EST)
Which software can play the different layers seperatly? I only know of vgmstream and Every File Explorer and I believe they can't do that. --Hiccup (talk) 06:41, 23 November 2014 (EST)
Run a batch file with test.exe and convert the bcstm files to .wav. Then import them into Audacity. If you want the batch code I can put it on your talk page. Robotortoise (talk) 16:14, 23 November 2014 (EST)
No it's fine. I'll check the tracks when I can. --Hiccup (talk) 16:17, 23 November 2014 (EST)

On-screen Instructions

The game has a few on-screen instructions, but there maybe some unused ones. These are all files prefixed "Guide" in the "LayoutData" folder:

  • Guide3D (black rectangle with "3D" in the bottom-right corner of top screen) - Almost certainly used when you go into one of the "3D Trick Rooms".
  • GuideAButton (white circle with "A" in the bottom-right corner) - Almost certainly used after you save.
  • GuideCrouch (white round speech bubble with "L" in middle of screen) - Almost certainly used when you stand ontop of a pipe.
  • GuideGyro (white 3DS and arrows surrounding it in top left corner) - Almost certainly used when you use a cannon or telescope.
  • GuideMii (white square speech bubble with black outline and tip pointing down. Has seemingly blank graphic called 'MyMii'; may have been placeholder Mii at one point.) - Almost certainly used on world map for streetpass; mystery boxes and/or toad houses
  • GuideMiiPresent (everything the same as GuideMii but the bubble graphic has its tip pointing down) - Almost certainly used in the level for streetpass; toad house presents
  • GuidePlay (black rectangle on covering a bit of the top of the screen) - Almost certainly the reminder that you should "stop playing and take a break".
  • GuideView3D (two white rectangles in bottom-left corner depicting the "3D" poking out of the screen, and "3D" poking in.) - Almost certainly used when you hold up or down on the d-pad.

On a related note, it seems many (all?) of the Layouts have an animation called "Test".


--Hiccup (talk) 15:53, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Those Mii ones sound like the graphics that appear on StreetPass-related Mystery Boxes and Mushroom houses. And isn't the A button the one that appears after every "Game was saved" message? --Peardian (talk) 18:46, 28 November 2014 (EST)

Debug resources?

In the file ResourceCategoryTable.byml, it gives a list of a bunch of objects in the game. Most of them match the names of files, but some of them are in Japanese. I've added some Google translations for them. 

マリオ ("Mario")
ルイージ ("Luigi")
常駐 ("resident")
常駐[デバッグ] ("resident [debug]")
常駐[ローカライズ] ("resident [localization]")
第二常駐 ("second resident")
ﾀ ("data")

I know 3DS stuff is only just getting started, but once we're able to, someone should look into locating/activating these resources. It might be as easy as swapping objects in Galaxy. --Peardian (talk) 00:25, 3 December 2014 (EST)

Resident? Wonder if that means some sort of villager....or a Toad.Robotortoise (talk) 18:10, 3 December 2014 (EST)

Debug screen- needs looking into

On this plea for tech support, a user complained that this game crashed when he put it into sleep mode, made a loud sound that ignored the volume setting, and when the console was opened, there were apparently blue screens with "debug codes". Unfortunately he didn't follow through and post pictures, but this might be something to watch out for. WhoIAm (talk) 20:54, 13 May 2015 (EDT)

Were there any playable demos/protos?

I swear I played a 3d Mario prototype on a convention in Russia that took place in July 2012 (it was called "Пикник Афишы 2012"). The game didn't have a name back then, just "Super Mario", and the level selection was really limited. It seems I played the prototype mentioned here, yet, I can't find any info about this specific build being playable to the general public, just the E3 demo. Thanks in advance

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